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Shadow
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 355 |
Current trends in C64 demos
I find it interesting to see how trends (both when it comes to design and effects) develop on different platforms.
Of course there are plenty of people breaking the mainstream all the time, but still I find that there are elements that change in popularity over time.
For example, we had the logo+scroller+effect style of the "oldschool" era, the PC-style bigpixel effects of the mid/late 90ies etc. etc.
The last few years the attribute-moving effects have been coming out in force, but now after watching all the great demos from C64, it seems like a couple of new things are trending:
- Layered effects
- Moving "bobs" in amounts that frankly astounds me (no, not talking about the good old unlimited bobs technique). Both the Censor demo and the Arsenic demo had some cool stuff going in this department. |
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lft
Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 369 |
Diagonal stuff. |
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Shadow
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 355 |
Can't edit messages but the sentence "...watching all the great demos from C64" should of course be "...watching all the great demos from X16" :) |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Colorcycling is the new 4x4. I.e. an overused technique like the 4x4 mode was in the late 90's. Of cuz it's cool when people come up with new colorcycle (aka definer) effects, but otherwise it gets boring. And nice to see that the trend seems to be on a decline. :) |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4723 |
Even if Hack'n Trade has been doing pure great PETSCII stuff for ages, I think it's safe to say that PETSCII demos have spread a bit lately, and is trending since ... X2014? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11360 |
Quote:Colorcycling is the new 4x4
sad but true |
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 677 |
open (side)borders for gfx/games/fx also seems to become a trend :) |
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
Small boats floating on waves has been a trend since Coma Light 13. |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1647 |
Even though stuff like digis and nice sound in general has always been a part of what a demo is, I think it is safe to say that there has been an upsurge in interest in doing more complex/technical things with the SID during the last few years. |
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Bob
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 71 |
And Samples ;) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
the self imposed trend of 50fps and highres effects are leading to boredom these days. color cyclers and twisters, and twisters and color cyclers and parallax scrollers, then some more color cycling, then a scrolling picture.
that bob routine is the best innovation since years, hats down to cruzer tho.
I wish 4x4 was back, frankly it has a lot more unused potential than twisters and color cycling and the sixt gazillionth type of scroller. |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
Quote: the self imposed trend of 50fps and highres effects are leading to boredom these days. color cyclers and twisters, and twisters and color cyclers and parallax scrollers, then some more color cycling, then a scrolling picture.
that bob routine is the best innovation since years, hats down to cruzer tho.
I wish 4x4 was back, frankly it has a lot more unused potential than twisters and color cycling and the sixt gazillionth type of scroller.
That bob routine is something similar I have in my stash... Grrrr. :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11360 |
Quote:I wish 4x4 was back
that'll look great next to a bonzai demo, i'm sure |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Quoting Oswaldthe self imposed trend of 50fps and highres effects are leading to boredom these days. color cyclers and twisters, and twisters and color cyclers and parallax scrollers, then some more color cycling, then a scrolling picture. So true. The problem with 4x4 was that some groups used it for everything, without even considering whether that was the best mode for each effect. It was so tasteless and unimginative. But if the fed-up-ness for it has now lead to a dogma saying "everything has to be hires and 50fps" that's just as dumb.
Quoting Oswaldthat bob routine is the best innovation since years, hats down to cruzer tho. The waving cube bobs? Thanks, but it's basically just scrolling unlimited bobs. Wonder why no one has done it yet.
And yeah, I would also rather have some welldone, innovative effects in 4x4 (like I think we actually had in our demo) than more slow scrolling gfx, and repetitions of the same twister and colorcycling routines. |
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
The problem with the chunky modes in the late nineties was that they were often used to straight off implement PC and accelerated Amiga effects on the C64, which the machine clearly was never able to cope with performance wise. So you ended up with low resolution slideshow framerate 3D object shows like in the famous Polish demos of the era. Looking at those demos now certainly has its charm, but mostly in relation to how different they are from today's demos.
To me doing something that the machine clearly wasn't meant to do and making it show that the machine isn't quite up to the task was never impressive. What impresses me is rather when you make the really impossible suddenly seem possible. "How are they doing that?!" rather than "Oh they clearly are pushing the CPU hard with this code!". |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 248 |
scrolling unlimited bobs you say?
here, in a different way thou:
https://youtu.be/2qZlA7g8Ia8?t=206
i have been close to your idea :D but your effect looks better. *nods* nice part, cruzer. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
"it's basically just scrolling unlimited bobs. "
doing that would have never occured me in a million years. brilliant idea. should be called cruzer bobs or smth :)
I spent an hour on the free scrolling version until I decided to dive in and hack away the scrolling and it finally clicked. until then I was going crazy how you move so much bobs *simultanously* my trained coder eye didnt help to pick up the cheating :) |
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Madhead
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 18 |
I don't know if it's only me but lately, everytime i watch a new demo, i can't wait to see greetings part. Nowadays people go through their greeting parts and come up with fresh and innovative ideas |
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Bitbreaker
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 504 |
I don't see a problem with 50fps and/or hires. It is just that one defaults too often to multicolor mode for not much reason. Hires can be a pretty good option, as well as 50fps can be. Why not aiming for 50 fps, when you are close to eat instead of defaulting to 25fps and wasting lots of valueable cpu cycles. It also has other advantages, like no double buffers needed and thus saving RAM. |
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Aomeba
Registered: Jul 2005
Posts: 22 |
I personally like faster paced demos.
Those long bitmap screen scrolls are nice looking, but very boring looking to me. That's a clear trend in my opinion. |
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Bob
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 71 |
"The waving cube bobs? Thanks, but it's basically just scrolling unlimited bobs"
Well me did ;)
for example in the
Bobs by Censor
I use both X and Y axis to scroll the background with use of AGSP ... (pain in the arse to do!) due to tiles are shifted (explained by LFT)
In Wonderland 13.. I do the same but with Sprite carpet that are unexpanded in Y which means badlines interference... (double pain in the arse to do)
BTW this WIZ (diagonal AGSP) tech ... was used in the Serpent with the waving sinus, "algaes" as PAL named them for ;) and a diagonal twister scroller... back in early 2014 for Datastorm..
other wise I was happy to see that some how multiple people are aiming towards same goals independently... :) |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 424 |
I was quite happy that I figured out Bob's Bobs during the prize giving ceremony... :) |
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Yazoo
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 227 |
parallax scrollers seem to be the shit these days... |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 248 |
someone said it. colorcycling = the new 4x4
petscii "mode" effects !! |
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Joe
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 227 |
I don't see trends, but rather sense that people show each other more than they should and that things turn out by looking at each others hidden secrets. Of course this get diffused by a different congenial way of impression/expression, which has been there all the way from the start: People tend to look at the released stuff and mimic, break, interpret in a slightly altered way to see fit.
Still miss a bit more individuality here, like the recent LFT-demo and Hollowmans work, whereas the content and storytelling gets a bit more focus (not necessarily transitions and such).
Seems the scene is still, 30 years later in a well-conditioned state, and members start to want experiences from more cross-development (new groups, constellations) part from their trademarks and brands, it's getting down to an entropy of individualism ;D
Each and every one with their own handwriting |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Funny to read that the top 10 active coders think how some cool effects are already cliché.
You bunch of 1337 twats! :D
I don't mind a 'slow' multi-screen scrolling picture, if it fits the demo and shows some stunning pixels.
More tedious are those code porn parts that just go on for too long: "Yes, yes, yes, we know you can rotate the goddam blimey vector cube/pyramid/donut/gazziliahedron..."
My favourites are where you go: ah, how cute, a 16x16 char 2-layer parall... HOLY COW! Full screen 3-layer parallax!
Or other unexpected stuff, even if that's just another original way of clearing the screen at the beginning of the demo. |
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Bob
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 71 |
its good with a reality check every now and then ;) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
the must have, of screen going off at the start is another cliché :) |
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Carrion
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317 |
I have to agree with Yazoo, Pracemaker, Mace but especially Oswald on his last comments. Just switch screen to black and start the damn demo would be my approach - in case you wondered... ;)
oh and parallaxes rock! therese so many way to use them in demo.... |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 424 |
I really enjoy basic fade effects, please don't stop making them! |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11360 |
i am still waiting for the demo that restores the screen to exactly what it was before running it :) |
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Archmage
Registered: Aug 2006
Posts: 185 |
Sloppy graphics ruining good effects. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Quoting ArchmageSloppy graphics ruining good effects.
Bonzai's case, unfortunately :( |
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
I think intricate BASIC fades have become quite overhyped. In the end it's just a transition, son. |
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Magnar
Registered: Aug 2009
Posts: 60 |
I still are waiting for a demo that actually uses $0314+$0315 for interrupts and do a proper $ea31 etc restore in order to have "ready. <cursor blinking>" on the screen all time while the demo is running :)
What a nice demo it would be.
Here is something for you to look at doing something like that.
Five Hours |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
Quote: I still are waiting for a demo that actually uses $0314+$0315 for interrupts and do a proper $ea31 etc restore in order to have "ready. <cursor blinking>" on the screen all time while the demo is running :)
What a nice demo it would be.
Here is something for you to look at doing something like that.
Five Hours
should be possible even with the interpreter running :) |
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Axis/Oxyron
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2007
Posts: 91 |
Quote: i am still waiting for the demo that restores the screen to exactly what it was before running it :)
Bright Blackout |
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Digger
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 427 |
Great thread! I was swearing too when I saw Bob's boobs, ooops! bobs.
LFT has delivered plenty of fresh AGSP trickery. Sprite masking in Wonderland and Performers' demo kicks ass. Offence's floating/hiding scroll is genius.
But there are still more things to come.
Looking for some new and fresh C64 gfx modes? Just be patient :-) Good things come to people who wait, right? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11360 |
Quote: Bright Blackout
nice try, but not quite :) |
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Luca
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 178 |
So weird! After some furious coding during this summer, I told to myself:"You lamer, you've never managed to code easy oldschool stuff like infinite bobs!", hence I did (on another machine, not C64) my personal reinterpretation of that ancient effect...
...and now, just after X'2016, infinite bobs, infinite bobs everywhere... :o |
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Perplex
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 255 |
They wouldn't be infinite otherwise, now would they? |
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Beastifire
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2013
Posts: 40 |
Not enough DYCP and DYSP! |
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 677 |
Isn't the cool part about blobs is that you can place an infinite amount of them in a finite area? ;-) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11360 |
that distinguishes them from boobs |
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Luca
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 178 |
Quote: that distinguishes them from boobs
Hah, wow, infinite boobs...that would have been an effect to vote like hell for the higher ranking...
...Btw Wikipedia reports "infinite bobs" only, whereas I knew that effect under the name of "unlimited bobs", who's able to rebuild the story about it (this time Recollection doesn't help...)? |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3187 |
https://imgur.com/gallery/l1shQfs
\o/ |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
A related term I overheard at X: "Eier ohne ende", about the huge bucket of eggs they had for breakfast. Dunno what that would be in Dutch, but probably something with my new favorite word "uitsmijters". |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 447 |
It seems Sierpinskis are fading out of popularity. There were none at the X 2016. |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 946 |
Nowadays it seems the demanding trend to combine original concepts, complex routines, hi-fi sound and big graphics into a balanced synergy.
And comeback winners for nostalgic reasons, which is the best reason to win a compo. Who's doing the comeback for X2018? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11360 |
XAKK!!!! |
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Compyx
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631 |
Quote: Not enough DYCP and DYSP!
Yes, that's the spirit! |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
Quote: Nowadays it seems the demanding trend to combine original concepts, complex routines, hi-fi sound and big graphics into a balanced synergy.
And comeback winners for nostalgic reasons, which is the best reason to win a compo. Who's doing the comeback for X2018?
Me then! |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 248 |
LIGHT! |
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algorithm
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 705 |
Crest and Blackmail would be good :-) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11360 |
and oxyron *g* |
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Magic
Registered: Sep 2012
Posts: 44 |
What Hein said... |
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Compyx
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631 |
Bring back Upfront, Bones and Horizon!
Stop colorcycling and very slow moving bitmaps, please :)
Also, PETSCII was nice, now start pixeling again. |
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Yazoo
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 227 |
Quote: LIGHT!
agree! |
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Bob
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 71 |
I noticed several demos seems to have double speed music aswell which from X-2014 or 2012 wasn't that common.. trends coming back?..
Comback demos Focus X-2018 :) |
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Luca
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 178 |
Also, this year anything was layered moving overlapped on anything else. |
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Axis/Oxyron
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2007
Posts: 91 |
I want Starion! |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 248 |
Beyond Force! |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
+1 for BF, cool coder demos :) |
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Aomeba
Registered: Jul 2005
Posts: 22 |
I want to see Oneway and Origo Dreamline! |
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Trap
Registered: Jul 2010
Posts: 223 |
Axis, you do realize that most of the late Starion was infact members from Bonzai? :) |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
Quote: I noticed several demos seems to have double speed music aswell which from X-2014 or 2012 wasn't that common.. trends coming back?..
Comback demos Focus X-2018 :)
Eh, which ones? |
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PAL
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 271 |
2 years after we quit the c64 scene there came this gang of insane people to a swedish party, we went there because it was to be the last party for c64 ever - we thought. This was 1994!
They released this beast of a demo: World of Code 3
I want more of that... with that music and everything, what a cool demo and feeling... I do not want all groups making the same things and in the same way, I want different stuff. |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 946 |
Quote: I noticed several demos seems to have double speed music aswell which from X-2014 or 2012 wasn't that common.. trends coming back?..
Comback demos Focus X-2018 :)
Focus comeback demo. The plans are done. The concepts are done. :)
My personal comeback demo: The Judges + 1001 Crew coop demo. |
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Axis/Oxyron
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2007
Posts: 91 |
Quote: Axis, you do realize that most of the late Starion was infact members from Bonzai? :)
Ofcourse, but you lack Microtop code. One of my heroes back in the days. |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 248 |
Quote: Focus comeback demo. The plans are done. The concepts are done. :)
My personal comeback demo: The Judges + 1001 Crew coop demo.
With a part like: fld-in-border ;) |
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Trap
Registered: Jul 2010
Posts: 223 |
True, Axis :) |
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Dr.j
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 277 |
hope to see one day Light or Brutal or Contex demos . they are one of my top fav. demo groups ever |
