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Nova
Registered: Jun 2012
Posts: 13 |
Pushing the envelope, Or stay beaten by a 16 YO kid!
I got abit nostalgic tonight and enjoyed some early ninetees
perfection by Flash inc, A little Light, Even Bob got in a few minutes of lalaland,Origo, byterapers, Upfront etc (Mathematica still gives me goosebumps)
It occured to me that todays elitegroups (according to me) like Oxyron,Booze,Plush,Chorus,Camelot started to emerge when us guys from the older school where just about done and our lives got in the way of the scener-life.
Back in those days everything was about squeezing every last cycle through perfecting a routine that many had made before you but if you got that last DXYCP char or those extra 10 (only in a Y sin,horrible) Plots you could reighn supreme for a few hours or even months or years before someone stole your glory and made a faster routine that often could be totaly outside the box and therefore superior.
Today everything seems to be about polished loader screens and perfect transitions between (again my opinion)"demoparts" that probably squeezes every last cycle, but who knows because there are just not 5000 fucking hungry young coders trying to make the same demopart, but just abit better.
I fell inlove with coding on the C64 because the hardware is set and everyone has the same precursors.
So, Here come the "hot potato",
Did "todays elite" choose a different path simply because
the "oldschool" effects just cannot be done faster within the hardware limitations, (sticking my chinn out here, punch it if you want to!)
Or since most of todays elite code for a living on other platforms but still cant write a faster routine then some pimplefaced 16 year old did two decades ago!!
I am not sure where i was going with this but i guess i just miss the old sceenerdays..
But it still seems strange that someone that can code bumpmapping and phongshaders on a C64 still cant write a faster dycproutine then some kid who sold the "moped" and bought a C64 two decades ago.
-WRAP!- |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
just do it |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
I suggest you take a look at Time Machine / Booze. EVERY part breaks former world records etc. Modern (good) demos squeeze everything out also, I can assure you. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
you still didnt beat my knot-raster! lamers! |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2980 |
Quoting JackAsserI suggest you take a look at Time Machine / Booze. EVERY part breaks former world records etc. Modern (good) demos squeeze everything out also, I can assure you. I was thinking of Royal Arte 100% featuring the (still) current DYCP record, made by the same guy, who also did bumpmappers and whatnot. :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
also Rocketry |
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Nova
Registered: Jun 2012
Posts: 13 |
I guess you didnt understand the true meaning of this post,
Ofcourse there are brilliant demos still turning up in the "oldschool" changre.
the fact that timemachine was released about 20 years after
the previous recordholders released their version would kinda validate my point or would you not agree?
I saw timemachine for the first time in Gothenburg at datastorm and i can truly say that it is an exception from the spirit of this post.
(I also held your beer while you puked your guts out behind the party place Jackasser but i guess you "forgot" about that :-) )
Nevermind,
Ignore the post if you dont agree,
Just dont give me 57 useless replies like the last time
i posted on this forum. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Quote:the fact that timemachine was released about 20 years after the previous recordholders released their version would kinda validate my point or would you not agree?
i still dont really get what that point is, but obviously it gets increasingly harder to beat those records. and for a bunch of records we know that the limit has been reached (eg "how many sprites over FLI", or "how many sprites on a screen"). that of course means you will see record breaking demos less and less often. i can assure you those are highly regarded by everyone though :) however, that (at least for me) also implies its also getting increasingly non interesting to beat those records. also, speaking for myself, i dont care if someone can do 15 or 20 or 40 DYCP on top of each other. its still ugly and unreadable :) i think what your "problem" might be, is that the days of plain in your face tech wankery are over, however - as jackasser already said, also the modern stuff requires all those skill and squeezes the last cycles out of the machine. often probably more than in any 80s rasterdemo :) |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
Quote: I guess you didnt understand the true meaning of this post,
Ofcourse there are brilliant demos still turning up in the "oldschool" changre.
the fact that timemachine was released about 20 years after
the previous recordholders released their version would kinda validate my point or would you not agree?
I saw timemachine for the first time in Gothenburg at datastorm and i can truly say that it is an exception from the spirit of this post.
(I also held your beer while you puked your guts out behind the party place Jackasser but i guess you "forgot" about that :-) )
Nevermind,
Ignore the post if you dont agree,
Just dont give me 57 useless replies like the last time
i posted on this forum.
I remeber pukeing and someone holding my beer. Thanks!! :) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
I'll be plainly rude here but can explain. Nobody beats old records anymore because from this day's standpoint these routines are fugly, nobody cares and everyone is too old to show off cocks (with some exceptions) :D It's always more entertaining to invest time in new ideas for routines (even if they are constantly lookups, static mapping and vic abuse), screens, design and story. Time goes forward and so does, paradoxicaly, C64 ;) |
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Golara
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2018
Posts: 212 |
Beating old records is extremely hard and sometimes not possible, because they are proven to not be possible. I'm mostly doing raster effects, because playing with the VIC and making it do stuff it was never intended to do is much more interesting to me than 3D stuff (that's half of the story, the other is that i suck at math, especially on such little cpu). Everytime I finish an effect and are very happy about it i get reminded how insignificant it is after watching Booze or Crest demo that does the same thing but bigger / more colors / faster... and 15 years ago |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quoting NovaSo, Here come the "hot potato",
Did "todays elite" choose a different path simply because the "oldschool" effects just cannot be done faster within the hardware limitations, (sticking my chinn out here, punch it if you want to!)
Hold still then... =-)
It's not that the oldschool effects are impossible to top because it does happen and we still get the odd flurry of one-upmanship from time to time, but there's not much wiggle room left to improve on what's gone before and, whilst there might be ways to improve on plotter or DYCP records if ugly-looking curves are used, the aesthetic is important to many developers these days (although people used to rag on each other for doing that back then too...)
And that doesn't mean there isn't room for someone to code demos that concentrate on pushing boundaries and, as I seem to find myself saying a lot these days, if you want to see something it's best to lead by example... things like the intro competition or that one Monte Carlos ran for illegal opcodes a couple of years ago are great as a deadline to get something finished and, if there's no current compo on the go which fits the bill, you could always start your own...?
[Shrugs] I don't do this much but here's me offering myself as a sort-of-example; a few years back I found myself missing the days of having lots of small, fun releases and started putting out a small onefiler per month, usually trying something I hadn't done previously to push myself a little... I've no idea if those did anything apart from entertain me, but hey ho I did it anyway. =-) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Quote:I remeber pukeing and someone holding my beer. Thanks!! :)
=D |
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Trap
Registered: Jul 2010
Posts: 223 |
Interesting discussion. I'll dish in :)
Groepaz has a point. More is not better anymore. Today, speaking for Bonzai anyway, it's not so much about creating more sprites, more scrollers, more xyz, but it is much more about creating something that looks beautiful - if difficult programming is required to get the result, then so be it, but it is not the goal. Looking back at recent AAA demos, boundaries are definitely still being pushed, but that is not what you are getting at, right Nova? What I see is that people tend to revisit old ideas and refine them so they look better. So here's what I think; demos today are just as impossible from a technical perspective, but the collaboration between coders and artists allow us to create much more beautiful results. At least that's what I am seeing.
/Trap |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
you could put it like this: in 1989 the main purpose of the demo was to push the boundaries. today its a side effect. but it happens nonetheless :) |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2980 |
And to add a random thought which might or might not be relevant in this discussion:
I mind-sneer whenever i hear somebody ask "Is it done with sprites? Chars? Bitmap?" :) Because really, it doesn't matter much, and many effects could be done with any of them or some combination, as the main complexity often lies with how to render, not what to render to. |
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Trash
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 122 |
Quote: And to add a random thought which might or might not be relevant in this discussion:
I mind-sneer whenever i hear somebody ask "Is it done with sprites? Chars? Bitmap?" :) Because really, it doesn't matter much, and many effects could be done with any of them or some combination, as the main complexity often lies with how to render, not what to render to.
I think that is half the fun with C64-demos, guessing how it is made without reading the code. Look at the rotating rasterbars in Uncensored for example, it has been puzzeling my mind even though I got an explanation from the horses mouth.
On subject: I agree with Trap, as adult programmers we really dont care if the code is hard (even if it affects the release cycles), we solve the problem. Demos of today are more polished but also more technical and new sublime effects are "baked in" into the demo leaving the audience to get wowed based on their own skills.
For me that is more fun and leads to me finding technical impossibilities on a regular basis. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2980 |
Okay, granted, half-true. Some effects really allow for that question. Maybe it's just that i keep hearing that question too often, mostly when it's not warranted. :) |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Yeah, i’d say also that a lot of the stuff being done on modern demos is tougher to put together than old school demos... and so putting it together well should make you feel good enough without needing to beat some world record.
One really annoying thing for a programmer - but annoying in a funny way - is that sometimes you spend AGES on an effect... optimising, trimming down the memory use, hand-tuning timings so that there’re no nasty taster jitters, etc etc etc... then you release the finished product and people say “oh, that’s quite nice”... gaaaaah. You want to scream - “nice? The blood, the tears, my fingernails, my receding hairline... you can’t imagine what went into this”. And that’s even worse when you try to tell someone who doesn’t know C64... “oh, if it wasn’t meant to do stuff like that - why don’t you just do it on PC?” SLAP! |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Also FYI I did actually beat one of my world records in a roundabout way in Delirious 11.... the circle scroller. I beat it only by using a larger font rather than more BOBs... but I still technically beat it. And I had spare CPU to add 2 large logos in the background. I could’ve obliterated my record if i’d put in so many BOBs that they were unreadable - but that wouldn’t fit with modern aesthetic. Times have changed. |
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The Sarge
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 49 |
This is a very interesting topic and its something I have been thinking of for a long time. So here are my thoughts.
All skills are equally important when making demos. Without good code, without good graphics/animation or without good music it will kind of fall flat. All have to work together pushing the boundaries as a team.
Some skills are maybe easier to notice, such as graphics or music. But without a great coder that graphic will just be a still picture and nothing more.
I for certain can't code one single line but I have endless appreciation for coders that can turn my ideas into something that runs on the screen the way I intended. And for that to happen you have to be great with coding. Coding may in some cases take a backseat these days as demos tend to be more arty than tech demos, so effects are not that obvious. And thats the way it should be I think. Demos got to have a good flow, story, design and music to keep them interesting. But thats not to say that the limits are not pushed as that thing called flow and storytelling is really testing the coder and hardware as it takes a lot of memory and things has to load fast.
I have recently been working on some demos where the hardware is doing "impossible" things, making us who design being able to put our ideas in motion, so for that I am endlessly in awe what coders can do today.
In my view, the demo scene is way more interesting today than before. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
then again, at least 50% of the demo is the music. demo with super awesome sound but mediocre code always wins over demo with mediocre music but great code (guess why all the sample wanking =D) |
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Carrion
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317 |
Quote: then again, at least 50% of the demo is the music. demo with super awesome sound but mediocre code always wins over demo with mediocre music but great code (guess why all the sample wanking =D)
well I have to agree with the 50% rule - with one exception though.
50% of the demo quality is GFX.
So I guess it depends who's judging... |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
a demo with killer soundtrack but mediocre gfx will still win over a demo with killer gfx but mediocre sound :) |
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Trash
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 122 |
A demo with killer code wont need neither music or graphics in order to win... |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
Quote: A demo with killer code wont need neither music or graphics in order to win...
I guess the code wasn't good enough for 1st place with Time Machine then. Only got #4. :D |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 728 |
@Jackasser: No no, we just blame it on the music, as always ;) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Quote:A demo with killer code wont need neither music or graphics in order to win
oh so wrong. that works perhaps when the other demos are utter crap :) |
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Carrion
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317 |
Quote: @Jackasser: No no, we just blame it on the music, as always ;)
@HCL
code - perfect.
Gfx was very good too ;)
some long time no sees from Valsary if I remember correctly... :D
but the music? some lame Scorta and Deek and others' covers ;)
@Groepaz
YMMV |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
its not about me really (i hardly vote at all), its what generally happens. |
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Carrion
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317 |
fair enough
then I think it's
MMMV |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
3005? thats extreme! |
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Trash
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 122 |
Quote: I guess the code wasn't good enough for 1st place with Time Machine then. Only got #4. :D
Oh, it could have been so much better, I mean a couple of dysps, how hard can it be ;-) |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Quote: I guess the code wasn't good enough for 1st place with Time Machine then. Only got #4. :D
I was a little disappointed that the final part of the demo wasn't a 32-sprite multiplex across 21 lines. I mean, come on, 89 lines wasn't it? Were you guys even trying? |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Quote: I was a little disappointed that the final part of the demo wasn't a 32-sprite multiplex across 21 lines. I mean, come on, 89 lines wasn't it? Were you guys even trying?
Also, to be honest, Time Machine definitely should've won that compo. But I'm a coder so maybe that sways things differently. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
not sure about THAT compo, but Uncensored certainly deserved it :=) |
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Compyx
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631 |
Time Machine certainly destroyed a lot of my dreams of doing old school record breaking. It's awesome, but also: fuck that damn demo :) |
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Trap
Registered: Jul 2010
Posts: 223 |
Agree with The Sarge ... demos today are much more driven by realization of an idea or a concept than by a coder creating something, splash on a logo and include random SID #XYZ. Well, that's what we used to do back in the day, right? :)
IMO a modern(?) demo is a demonstration of great teamwork more than anything else. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Trap: “ is a demonstration of great teamwork more than anything else.”
... not forgetting the one-man teams like LFT of course.
For me it doesn’f matter if a demo is oldschool, newschool, 1k, 4K, 1 disk, 3-4 disks, ... a good demo can be any of those - or something else entirely. And it can be made by 1 person, 1 group, 3 groups, whatever.
Teamwork is great - but not every demo can be a 10-person, 3-group trackmo with 3 hours of bitmap scrolls ;-) |
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Carrion
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317 |
Quote: Agree with The Sarge ... demos today are much more driven by realization of an idea or a concept than by a coder creating something, splash on a logo and include random SID #XYZ. Well, that's what we used to do back in the day, right? :)
IMO a modern(?) demo is a demonstration of great teamwork more than anything else.
amen |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quoting TrapAgree with The Sarge ... demos today are much more driven by realization of an idea or a concept than by a coder creating something, splash on a logo and include random SID #XYZ. Well, that's what we used to do back in the day, right? :)
That's what I'm still doing... badly most of the time. =-) |
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Compyx
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631 |
Quoting Raistlin3 hours of bitmap scrolls
That's one of things we use old effects for, such as linecrunch and/or vsp, to have bitmaps scrolling at 1 pixel per frame. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
1 pixel per 2 frames is way better - half the work for the artist but DOUBLE the enjoyment for the viewer. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
slower scrolling is only allowed when the picture is larger |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
It’s funny because it’s true :’) .. non-programmers: because the picture is larger, you need to IRQ load in the background, giving less CPU time to do the scroll. So double the length of picture can mean FOUR TIMES the enjoyment time for the end user ;-) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
it should take 5 minutes at least for a proper cigarette break :) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
Nova apparently doesnt understands the technicalities of todays demos. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2980 |
Quoting RaistlinIt’s funny because it’s true :’) .. non-programmers: because the picture is larger, you need to IRQ load in the background, giving less CPU time to do the scroll. So double the length of picture can mean FOUR TIMES the enjoyment time for the end user ;-) I believe most of the bitmap crawlers could scroll significantly faster. But i also believe it went down more like this:
<Gfxian> Hey, can you make this 3-screen picture scroll?
<Coder> Yeah, sure. Might not scroll so fast, though, unless i spend a week min to optimise the shit out of it.
<Gfxian> Ah, don't bother. Gives the audience more time to appreciate every single pixel and then some.
<Coder> Alright. Then i have more time for the actual effects. |
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Golara
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2018
Posts: 212 |
Quote: Trap: “ is a demonstration of great teamwork more than anything else.”
... not forgetting the one-man teams like LFT of course.
For me it doesn’f matter if a demo is oldschool, newschool, 1k, 4K, 1 disk, 3-4 disks, ... a good demo can be any of those - or something else entirely. And it can be made by 1 person, 1 group, 3 groups, whatever.
Teamwork is great - but not every demo can be a 10-person, 3-group trackmo with 3 hours of bitmap scrolls ;-)
It doesn't matter when you watch and listen to a demo, but when evaluating the "score" or... i don't know what to call it, but I guess I respect the demos with less people involved much more. I really like the idea of 3 guys doing a demo, coder, graphician and musician. Like a band.
I'm thinking of moments like in "Unicorn" by chorus where the code/paint/keyboard graphics comes up and it's just 3 names over it, or Cycle by booze and it just says "Demo by HCL and Dane". Somehow I find it much cooler than 3 minutes of credits scroll. (btw, I think I'm involved in the second kind right now, just so you know) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
i totally agree - thats also why "uncensored" should have won :) |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2980 |
I remember their PR wasn't as good as the others. :) |
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Mr.Ammo
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 228 |
Quoting Raistlin[...]
One really annoying thing for a programmer - but annoying in a funny way - is that sometimes you spend AGES on an effect... optimising, trimming down the memory use, hand-tuning timings so that there’re no nasty taster jitters, etc etc etc... then you release the finished product and people say “oh, that’s quite nice”... gaaaaah. You want to scream - “nice? The blood, the tears, my fingernails, my receding hairline... you can’t imagine what went into this”. And that’s even worse when you try to tell someone who doesn’t know C64... “oh, if it wasn’t meant to do stuff like that - why don’t you just do it on PC?” SLAP!
The IKEA effect all over. We invest in something and love it very much and don't see how other people don't see things our way. We all suffer this irrational behaviour ;-) |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 728 |
Quote: I remember their PR wasn't as good as the others. :)
Hmm, what was that all about?! Did Bob give you one of his (free) beers, or what actually did he do to make you all vote for *that* demo!?
As for Time Machine, it really wasn't finished enough when the compo was held. |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
Quote: Hmm, what was that all about?! Did Bob give you one of his (free) beers, or what actually did he do to make you all vote for *that* demo!?
As for Time Machine, it really wasn't finished enough when the compo was held.
Well we did have a cake when winning with 1991 so we’ve had our share of PR stunts. ;) |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Does the size of the cake need to be inversely proportional to the size of the demo? |
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Perplex
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 255 |
We'll bring a cupcake then. |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
Quote: Does the size of the cake need to be inversely proportional to the size of the demo?
Tbh it was a 15 min demo and the largest cake, so no. Directly proportional |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
"Tbh it was a 15 min demo and the largest cake, so no. Directly proportional"
Nice. We'll bring a raisin ;-) |
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
Quoting RaistlinOne really annoying thing for a programmer - but annoying in a funny way - is that sometimes you spend AGES on an effect... optimising, trimming down the memory use, hand-tuning timings so that there’re no nasty taster jitters, etc etc etc... then you release the finished product and people say “oh, that’s quite nice”... gaaaaah.
I've found that the effects that were the hardest (for me) to code are often not the ones people comment on. F.ex. I did a double FPP chess zoomer in The Social Demo, which was a really fiddly piece of code to write and I was super happy when I finally managed to squeeze it all in. Nobody else seemed to really care about that one however, instead mostly commenting on a really lazy static twister effect with some non-standard graphics. :-) |
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Golara
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2018
Posts: 212 |
Quote: Quoting RaistlinOne really annoying thing for a programmer - but annoying in a funny way - is that sometimes you spend AGES on an effect... optimising, trimming down the memory use, hand-tuning timings so that there’re no nasty taster jitters, etc etc etc... then you release the finished product and people say “oh, that’s quite nice”... gaaaaah.
I've found that the effects that were the hardest (for me) to code are often not the ones people comment on. F.ex. I did a double FPP chess zoomer in The Social Demo, which was a really fiddly piece of code to write and I was super happy when I finally managed to squeeze it all in. Nobody else seemed to really care about that one however, instead mostly commenting on a really lazy static twister effect with some non-standard graphics. :-)
I find making the main effects much easier than the whole design around them later on. Of course the main effect is usually much more complicated and bigger piece of code, but it's also what is most interesting and keeps you going. Making some transitions is so hard for me. Especially multi stages, like here comes one part of graphics, then something else happens, them something changes and THEN we just to the main irq. Although it's probably the lack of experience and I'm just doing it the stupid way. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Here too - and I think that applies not just to demos but ALL programming. 25% of the work is the fun initial work. Then 75% is the polish. That applies to game development, applications, demos, websites, ... for me at least.
I’m trying to build up a toolset of code for C64 that at least makes this work easier - but it’s still a pain at times. |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
If there's one thing I end up procrastinating over it's linking [mutters] because it's not particularly difficult, but all the coding fun comes from the parts and sticking them togehter and making everything play nice isn't anywhere near as enjoyable.
That's another reason I did the onefilers for quite a while... there's still donkey work code in there - and declaring that you'll be doing one a month is just asking for trouble with a "memory" like mine - but far less so.
Also, all the talk of cake is making me hungry. =-( |
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Golara
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2018
Posts: 212 |
Quote: If there's one thing I end up procrastinating over it's linking [mutters] because it's not particularly difficult, but all the coding fun comes from the parts and sticking them togehter and making everything play nice isn't anywhere near as enjoyable.
That's another reason I did the onefilers for quite a while... there's still donkey work code in there - and declaring that you'll be doing one a month is just asking for trouble with a "memory" like mine - but far less so.
Also, all the talk of cake is making me hungry. =-(
I'm making a multi part demo with transitions in and out, but they all go out to solid color so I can load quickly with screen off. Kinda lame, but I think it'll suffice for a first proper demo. And syncing with music in each part is so much easier. Of course one day I'll make a proper trackmo (famous last words)
see chorus / irrational for the style I'm going for. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2980 |
Quoting KrillI remember their PR wasn't as good as the others. :) Quoting HCLHmm, what was that all about?! Did Bob give you one of his (free) beers, or what actually did he do to make you all vote for *that* demo!? This is entirely subjective (and i don't really think it influenced the outcome much), but...
AFAIR, the Booze posse wasn't much to be seen at X 2014. Yous appeared at the party place, gave a few hellos, then vanished, more or less until the demo compo. Probably retired to your coding chambers, to work hard on finishing the demo or so.
Or maybe i just managed to continuously miss all of yous.
Meanwhile, the combined forces of Oxyron + Censor (all 10+ of them whom later went upstage) went around chatting and having beers with everybody and handing out colourful stickers or some other merchandise.
Oh and btw., is "Uncensored" some kind of pun directed against Censor? :) |
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Bob
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 71 |
hehe ;) |
