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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
IFFL
Before I begin, let me say that I *have* tried without asking for help. I've downloaded a variety of IFFL programs and all have failed. I have read up on IFFL and understand it, I just can't do it :)
*ahem* Okay, now then...
I am in the midst of writing a game with multiple levels. It features an intro, levels, end page and high score page. Each page loads the next page through KERNAL load routines, so it consists of standalone files for now.
What I would like to do is to one-file them into an IFFL version. I don't mind if it features a loader file, I'd just like to pack the various files into one.
First, each file is not just level data... that is to say, they begin at $0801 and execute, so it isn't just loading data into upper memory. Each file needs to be executed as a standalone program. Due to wanting to use all available RAM, linking them together is not feasable because this reduces the amount of free memory available to me.
Now then.. I have tried to download Burglar's IFFL program as well as many others. The process seems quite simple enough. Link them through a "linker" which makes it one file. However in the case of Burglar's program, there is no depacker in the linker. The standalone depacker doesn't advise you what filename to use, but it DOES begin with a STA $xxxx which means you just load the Accumulator with the file # and run his depacker.
I have tried at least 6 other IFFL linkers and while some of them do create a single file, the depacking portion (normally written to disk after it links) results in just filling the RAM with garbage every time.
Keep in mind IFFL is new to me, it had only just begun to come out when I left the scene so I don't know how to use it. I understand the linking concept (make a single IFFL file), I understand the depack concept (you load the accumulator with the file, JSR, it unpacks from the IFFL file according to the track and sector). I have seen IFFL packers as well which I *think* crunches the IFFL one file even more.
To say the least I am confused and I'm asking for help. I'm not keen on asking for help but I need it...
So essentially what I require is:
- a way to link approximately 6 files that begin at $0801 into one file and that can be called one by one as I need them. I understand each file will need a copy of the unpacker code and the proper LDA #$xx before calling the routine.
- it must work on NTSC
- not only a way to link the files into one, but a proper depacker as well. The best program I could find would pack them but then gave you a Turbo Assembler code for a depacker which gave errors when trying to compile it.
- I know this can be done because my game Jailbreak consisted of 4 files that were done with ECA Linker, and made into a single file. As it needed to, it would unpack the next file necessary.
Any help, suggestions of a POSITIVE nature would be appreciated. I have tried everything under the sun and I really would prefer it to be a single file.
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
Used it only once or twice myself.
What you DO want to use,is one that scans the disk before the actual loading starts. (X-Ray used a great one!)
Otherwise the loading becomes PURE HELL!! ;) |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
You could check the IFFL tutorial from covertbitops, that has material ..ahem.. "learned" from several sources. It doesn't integrate a depacker by default but shouldn't be hard to add.
http://covertbitops.c64.org/rants/iffl.htm
Btw. IFFL files are (IMO) not so nice for copying flexibility, compatibility (since custom drivecode has to be used or fast scanning & loading will be practically impossible) etc. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
I know, I'm in a debate. I'd much prefer leaving it as loadable files. That would allow for 100% compatibility.
I suppose I could wait for one of the lamer labels to jump all over it, to see an IFFL version :) however I'd much rather do the version myself.
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
To my knowledge lamer labels haven't used IFFL since around 1996/7. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2980 |
It's actually possible to only scan (quickly) on demand, that is, have a scan-routine in the loader code, so scanning is not needed beforehand but only for some of the files - if you load the files sequentially (more likely in demos than in games), no scanning is needed at all, actually.
Anyways, the loader should of course be flexible enough to also handle other drives than 1541. Which is not so easy since there is no seek function in the kernal to hook for more modern media - extra routines are needed for every one of them. So the "cool" look of an iffl-ed game will fade away quickly if you try it on non-1541/71 drives.. IFFL-loaders only make sense if a game that would not fit on 1 diskside un-iffled fits after iffl-reducing the sector allocation overhead. That's pretty seldom though. Better go for Dreamload, Covert Bitops loader or other loaders that support non-1541 drives and load separate files. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
I liked Dreamload however I found that if you used it once, it would fail to work (and in fact crash) when you attempted to initialize it again without powering off the 1541.
I also didn't care for the $0400 effect, and was able to relocate that off screen but the above mentioned problem still remained.
It is actually a wonderful program considering that you could play music, etc. as it loaded, and it loaded amazingly fast too. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2980 |
$0400 effect? To my knowledge, Dreamload doesn't "feature" any loading/depacking effects. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
I'm quite sure that once you initialized the loader, that code would be put on the screen at about $0500. As the program loaded, you could also see the 255 bytes of data being put on the screen, once per sector.
I'll give it another look but I'm 99% sure. :) |
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Dishy
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 241 |
Talking about IFFL cracks reminds me of all the great quality cracks that I´ve got in my archive from Satan&Ray/G*P/VSN/F4CG. Vision had in my opinion a real cool IFFL-system. Actually one of the best in the scene! It was made by Zagon/Vision, which Satan and Ray used quite a lot and were some of the best active topquality crackers left in Denmark in 1993. I´ve uploaded a few of them in here at CSDb! Those versions rocks, I think - and damn do I miss those days in the crackingscene, when I see old cracks like these, also with so great tunes in the intros!
Mega Starforce +3 cracked by Ray for GenesisProject
Mega Starforce +3
(Big fans of Crossfire/EPIC, shouldn´t read this scroll,hehe;)
Eon +5 cracked by Ray for GenesisProject
Eon +5
Fred's Back +3 Ray for GenesisProject (Not IFFL but LM-packed! Best version around, that I´ve seen!)
Fred's Back +3
IFFL versions rules!
Maybe I should call Satan or Ray and here if they still have Zagon´s IFFL system. Mayby that could help you Wanderer:)
And actually I think CSDb should have a special topic for IFFL versions, when you upload cracks! CSDb V2 should focus a little more on the crackingscene too;) Otherwise I will probably - as an old member of CHROMANCE - have to make the old crakingmag ARE WE THE BEST, so we can get some more focus on the old illegal-scene! AWTB-online or GamersGuide-online in cooperation with CSDb and C64heaven.com... Heh, why not? ;) Would love that part of the C64-internet-scene... :)
...off to sleep!:)
*****Once A Scener - Always A Scener***** |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
I knew I wasn't on crack. :)
http://www.ontarioghosttowns.com/ccs8.jpg
(Dream Loader upon calling $8000)
My first time seeing IFFL was on Creatures 2 in 1992, right before I left the scene. It seems that different groups have designed their own versions since then which is very impressive.
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Dishy: sounds real cool! Yeh I remember Satan real well, was trading with him (snail rulez) in the early 90s. Regarding focus on cracking scene - Vandalism News still has a first release list and coverage of all aspects of C64 cracking. Check the latest issues! Some oldschool emphasis in the new publication RECOLLECTION which will come out later this or next month.
Check the IFFL loader used in Devious Designs. Should work on most things. ;)
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Mason
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 461 |
Quote: Talking about IFFL cracks reminds me of all the great quality cracks that I´ve got in my archive from Satan&Ray/G*P/VSN/F4CG. Vision had in my opinion a real cool IFFL-system. Actually one of the best in the scene! It was made by Zagon/Vision, which Satan and Ray used quite a lot and were some of the best active topquality crackers left in Denmark in 1993. I´ve uploaded a few of them in here at CSDb! Those versions rocks, I think - and damn do I miss those days in the crackingscene, when I see old cracks like these, also with so great tunes in the intros!
Mega Starforce +3 cracked by Ray for GenesisProject
Mega Starforce +3
(Big fans of Crossfire/EPIC, shouldn´t read this scroll,hehe;)
Eon +5 cracked by Ray for GenesisProject
Eon +5
Fred's Back +3 Ray for GenesisProject (Not IFFL but LM-packed! Best version around, that I´ve seen!)
Fred's Back +3
IFFL versions rules!
Maybe I should call Satan or Ray and here if they still have Zagon´s IFFL system. Mayby that could help you Wanderer:)
And actually I think CSDb should have a special topic for IFFL versions, when you upload cracks! CSDb V2 should focus a little more on the crackingscene too;) Otherwise I will probably - as an old member of CHROMANCE - have to make the old crakingmag ARE WE THE BEST, so we can get some more focus on the old illegal-scene! AWTB-online or GamersGuide-online in cooperation with CSDb and C64heaven.com... Heh, why not? ;) Would love that part of the C64-internet-scene... :)
...off to sleep!:)
*****Once A Scener - Always A Scener*****
Well Well - Ray of Genesis Project wasnt the only one who did a single file version of Fred's Back. I did it for the first one under Mechanix: Fred's Back +2
Also did it with Fred's Back 2 for Epic: Fred's Back II +2 |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1078 |
Quote: You could check the IFFL tutorial from covertbitops, that has material ..ahem.. "learned" from several sources. It doesn't integrate a depacker by default but shouldn't be hard to add.
http://covertbitops.c64.org/rants/iffl.htm
Btw. IFFL files are (IMO) not so nice for copying flexibility, compatibility (since custom drivecode has to be used or fast scanning & loading will be practically impossible) etc.
Lasse, I don't think your 2-bit loader is stable. The handshaking is a little too barebones so sometimes it gets confused and transfers a garbage byte or locks up. If you do
ldx #0
loop:
txa
sta $0400,x
jsr loader_send
jsr loader_recv
sta $0500,x
eor $0400,x
sta $0600,x
inx
jmp loop
and put an echo server on the drive side (jsr drv_recv : jsr drv_send : jmp loop) you'll get errors quite quickly.
As for IFFL systems, in Ultima IV I put the scanning logic on the C64 side, mainly because there are over 800 files so you can't fit the t/s/o tables in drive ram. On the 1541/70/71/81 I use a fast read_track_links routine, and for the CMD FD and HD I use a readsector fallback that only xfers the first two bytes of every sector.
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2980 |
Quote: I knew I wasn't on crack. :)
http://www.ontarioghosttowns.com/ccs8.jpg
(Dream Loader upon calling $8000)
My first time seeing IFFL was on Creatures 2 in 1992, right before I left the scene. It seems that different groups have designed their own versions since then which is very impressive.
Doesn't look like a loading/depack effect but just like the loader code relocated to screen memory. Not their fault :D |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1101 |
wanderer, first of all, you need to understand how it really works.
the linker is just what it is a linker, it links files on disk to one file and afterwards offers a fast (1541 only!) scanner to save on disk.
so basically you need to do this:
- levelpack all files
- put all levelpacked files in order on a disk
- link them together and save the scanner
now, you save the loader/depacker to a location that won't be overwritten by any of the files.
finally you create a boot file which includes the scanner and the loader (and possibly a trainermenu + intro + game)
after scanning the file you can do the following to load+depack a file:
lda #$00
jsr $loader
for the 1st file
lda #$02
jsr loader
for the 3rd file
etc
my iffl is 100% ntsc/pal, but only works on 1541 drives (and emus with true drive emulation).
Burglar
PS: Not sure which version you have of my iffl routines, but presumably an old one, so I'm not sure what type of loader/depacker it has. |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
Quote: Lasse, I don't think your 2-bit loader is stable. The handshaking is a little too barebones so sometimes it gets confused and transfers a garbage byte or locks up. If you do
ldx #0
loop:
txa
sta $0400,x
jsr loader_send
jsr loader_recv
sta $0500,x
eor $0400,x
sta $0600,x
inx
jmp loop
and put an echo server on the drive side (jsr drv_recv : jsr drv_send : jmp loop) you'll get errors quite quickly.
As for IFFL systems, in Ultima IV I put the scanning logic on the C64 side, mainly because there are over 800 files so you can't fit the t/s/o tables in drive ram. On the 1541/70/71/81 I use a fast read_track_links routine, and for the CMD FD and HD I use a readsector fallback that only xfers the first two bytes of every sector.
Hmm, can you specify the program that results in this (for example some of the loader examples I could modify to load over & over again)? The example seems a bit weird because I've only coded a time critical 1541->C64 transfer, other way round always uses MM's asynchronous & lazy protocol, and they most likely weren't tested mixed like that..
Though having a bug wouldn't be a surprise as I've always preferred 1-bit for leaving sprites on. |
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MRT
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 149 |
Please don't mind me for asking, but...
What's the use of IFFL? As far as I could read it has a lot of implementation problems and I couldn't find any reason why IFFL is better that just regular file loading.
What am I missing?
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1078 |
You save an average of 127 bytes per file (as filesizes aren't rounded up to the nearest block), you're not limited to 144 files, and there's no directory search time. Ultima IV is a perfect example of when IFFL is good to use: 850 files, many of them smaller than one block. Trackloader or IFFL are the only options, and trackloaders don't work on 1571/81 disks.
IFFL systems are really just trackloaders than initialize the track/sector/offset table at startup by scanning the disk.
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2980 |
Cadaver: best is 2bit+ATN. Allows arbitrary interrupts, such as sprites, badline, irq, nmi, etc. while being rather fast. Some days ago i have found out how to make it work with multiple drives on the bus, so i will update my loader soon. |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
That's surely interesting (have tested 2bit+ATN, but abandoned it in fear of NTSC powerusers) :) |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1078 |
Quote: Hmm, can you specify the program that results in this (for example some of the loader examples I could modify to load over & over again)? The example seems a bit weird because I've only coded a time critical 1541->C64 transfer, other way round always uses MM's asynchronous & lazy protocol, and they most likely weren't tested mixed like that..
Though having a bug wouldn't be a surprise as I've always preferred 1-bit for leaving sprites on.
Yes, the problem is related to mixing the 1-bit fully handshaked protocol with the timed 2-bit transfer. There are a couple of people out there who have been trying to use your 2-bit loaders though, and AFAIK they have all had stability problems.
In my 2-bit loader I ended up just your 2-bit 1541->C64 xfer routine, with added handshaking. For C64->1541 I used the same handshaking procedure and the 2-bit xfer routine from Krill's 2-bit irqsaver. As far as I can tell it's stable (and reasonably fast :), but I'm going to see if I can test on a few different drives at the St Lars meeting this weekend.
As for 2-bit+ATN, that's a bit of a pain unless someone comes up with a stable way of disabling the other devices on the bus.
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Quote: wanderer, first of all, you need to understand how it really works.
the linker is just what it is a linker, it links files on disk to one file and afterwards offers a fast (1541 only!) scanner to save on disk.
so basically you need to do this:
- levelpack all files
- put all levelpacked files in order on a disk
- link them together and save the scanner
now, you save the loader/depacker to a location that won't be overwritten by any of the files.
finally you create a boot file which includes the scanner and the loader (and possibly a trainermenu + intro + game)
after scanning the file you can do the following to load+depack a file:
lda #$00
jsr $loader
for the 1st file
lda #$02
jsr loader
for the 3rd file
etc
my iffl is 100% ntsc/pal, but only works on 1541 drives (and emus with true drive emulation).
Burglar
PS: Not sure which version you have of my iffl routines, but presumably an old one, so I'm not sure what type of loader/depacker it has.
Thanks for the reply. I read your post and I understand all of that, the linking process and how to call the loader. Your linker works well but the depacker doesn't mention what the filename should be. I've looked at the code for where it sets the filename and can't seem to find it.
I realize I'm new to the whole IFFL thing, but have enough of a grasp of it that I should be able to get it to work :)
I'm using the one from Onslaught's site
http://www.atlantis-prophecy.org/onslaught/php/c64misc.php
As I said, yours seems to be the closest to success as it has an easy to understand loader and linker but without the filename, aarrghh... and the scanner, I don't know where to even find that unless the linker makes it for you.
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Quote: Please don't mind me for asking, but...
What's the use of IFFL? As far as I could read it has a lot of implementation problems and I couldn't find any reason why IFFL is better that just regular file loading.
What am I missing?
In my case I simply would like to make it a single file, but it does seem to create some compatibility issues.
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
Quote: Yes, the problem is related to mixing the 1-bit fully handshaked protocol with the timed 2-bit transfer. There are a couple of people out there who have been trying to use your 2-bit loaders though, and AFAIK they have all had stability problems.
In my 2-bit loader I ended up just your 2-bit 1541->C64 xfer routine, with added handshaking. For C64->1541 I used the same handshaking procedure and the 2-bit xfer routine from Krill's 2-bit irqsaver. As far as I can tell it's stable (and reasonably fast :), but I'm going to see if I can test on a few different drives at the St Lars meeting this weekend.
As for 2-bit+ATN, that's a bit of a pain unless someone comes up with a stable way of disabling the other devices on the bus.
Rants & code were updated. Now C64 always begins transfer in either way, and drive responds. Stresstested with the loop you described & it seemed to work..
+ added buffering to the IFFL loader for better performance, especially if a depacker is added. |
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Mason
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 461 |
Quote: Thanks for the reply. I read your post and I understand all of that, the linking process and how to call the loader. Your linker works well but the depacker doesn't mention what the filename should be. I've looked at the code for where it sets the filename and can't seem to find it.
I realize I'm new to the whole IFFL thing, but have enough of a grasp of it that I should be able to get it to work :)
I'm using the one from Onslaught's site
http://www.atlantis-prophecy.org/onslaught/php/c64misc.php
As I said, yours seems to be the closest to success as it has an easy to understand loader and linker but without the filename, aarrghh... and the scanner, I don't know where to even find that unless the linker makes it for you.
Well in many situations the scanner already set the filename, but to be sure its always wise to set the vector and then a $ffbd. In some cases the games cleared the zeropage where its stored the length of file, lo-byte and hi-byte - I reckon it $b7, $bb and $bc. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Burglar's program doesn't tell you what the filename is though, so the 1541 flashes a file not found error. This is more encouraging though than the other IFFL loaders that DO load the files only to fill the entire RAM with the same byte, thus crashing.
Also, isn't level packing simply packing data that can be loaded and extracted using a depack routine, such as character data for games? Aren't level packers totally different than IFFL and therefore you wouldn't need to level pack anything if the intention was to IFFL?
To expand on that... say a game had 10 levels that had data from $4000-6000 you would not use Cruel Crunch on it, but you would use a Level Cruncher, right? So to make an IFFL would you just use an IFFL linker and not even touch a Level Packer, yes? I'm confused by an earlier comment about having to level crunch when wanting to IFFL too.
I hate being clueless when it comes to aspects of the 64 but asking questions is a necessary evil :) |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
The IFFL loader may be expecting your files to be packed with a certain (level)packer, so that they can be depacked correctly when loading.
Now how to know what that is, is another question.. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
I'm going to give it one last shot with Burglar's IFFL packer/loader and linker.
Ironically I did write a similar program on the PC. It was a one-file demo that consisted of files linked together and the loader would depack the files it needed, run them, then delete them from the drive afterwards, while leaving the one-file untouched. It worked by using a routine similar to the track/sector scanning method. It was quite crude but worked similar to IFFL, and was done in C++.
Re-edit: I level crunched two music files, ran the IFFL linker (seems to me you shouldn't need to level pack what you intend to IFFL link). Loaded the scanner, executed it and then executed the loader with a LDA #$00. The scanner gave me a BASIC error message, and then proceeded to fill the screen up with carriage returns. Tried IFFL linking two files that were in raw format (not crunched). Again the scanner barfed.
Fuck the fucking concept! I'm sticking with Kernal loads.
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1078 |
Quote: Rants & code were updated. Now C64 always begins transfer in either way, and drive responds. Stresstested with the loop you described & it seemed to work..
+ added buffering to the IFFL loader for better performance, especially if a depacker is added.
Nice! |
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soci
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 480 |
Nostalgia has a really nice IFFL system coded by GRG, which supports 1541, 1570, 1571, 1581, CMD FD-2000, CMD FD-4000, CMD-HD and IDE64 (IDEDOS v0.90+). But I think it's for their high quality cracks only. It can even save highscores and gamestates right into the file.
I've done an IDE64 compatible loader for Cadaver's IFFL system in last August, but now I cannot find this on the site. (maybe it's updated meanwhile, but I could not directly check the *.c64.org one because this domain is filtered here...)
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1101 |
Quote: I'm going to give it one last shot with Burglar's IFFL packer/loader and linker.
Ironically I did write a similar program on the PC. It was a one-file demo that consisted of files linked together and the loader would depack the files it needed, run them, then delete them from the drive afterwards, while leaving the one-file untouched. It worked by using a routine similar to the track/sector scanning method. It was quite crude but worked similar to IFFL, and was done in C++.
Re-edit: I level crunched two music files, ran the IFFL linker (seems to me you shouldn't need to level pack what you intend to IFFL link). Loaded the scanner, executed it and then executed the loader with a LDA #$00. The scanner gave me a BASIC error message, and then proceeded to fill the screen up with carriage returns. Tried IFFL linking two files that were in raw format (not crunched). Again the scanner barfed.
Fuck the fucking concept! I'm sticking with Kernal loads.
heh, well, I dunno which version you have, but I only used the loader present in my iffl package a few times, decades ago. the newer loaders were just done in tasm, and never made it to the public. |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
Quote: Nostalgia has a really nice IFFL system coded by GRG, which supports 1541, 1570, 1571, 1581, CMD FD-2000, CMD FD-4000, CMD-HD and IDE64 (IDEDOS v0.90+). But I think it's for their high quality cracks only. It can even save highscores and gamestates right into the file.
I've done an IDE64 compatible loader for Cadaver's IFFL system in last August, but now I cannot find this on the site. (maybe it's updated meanwhile, but I could not directly check the *.c64.org one because this domain is filtered here...)
Hmm sorry, it most likely has been lost or was never added to the site. |
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soci
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 480 |
No problem, also happens with me sometimes ;) I've resent it to you. |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1078 |
Hrm, saving into the IFFL file - why didn't I think of that? :)
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Quote: Nostalgia has a really nice IFFL system coded by GRG, which supports 1541, 1570, 1571, 1581, CMD FD-2000, CMD FD-4000, CMD-HD and IDE64 (IDEDOS v0.90+). But I think it's for their high quality cracks only. It can even save highscores and gamestates right into the file.
I've done an IDE64 compatible loader for Cadaver's IFFL system in last August, but now I cannot find this on the site. (maybe it's updated meanwhile, but I could not directly check the *.c64.org one because this domain is filtered here...)
Yes, I would not expect that Nostalgia or any other group would release their newer utilities. Looking back at the old IFFL and crunchers, some of the text actually threatens you if you release the stuff :)
I'll come back in 5 years and see if I can't grab the Nostalgia one :)
Actually if I spent enough time, and asked enough questions, I could probably get it to work. It isn't rocket science, but the frustration level is too much.
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 686 |
Dishy: Yes, Zagon's system was the best! it rocked all other iffl's. And was a true iffl byte linked file, and not crappy sector linked like most.
In fact, Nostalgia's N0SD0S is based on this iffl system. Although it has been been completely rewritten many times now. It retains some basic elements of the original.
Wanderer: N0SD0S will never be released to the public.
But, I have been working on the old system (post zagon, pre n0sd0s) which I was working on for many years and release it to the public soon.
It is a real iffl, supports many level crunchers, and has fastloading, with the ability to save a high score file.
I may or may not code an irq loader. Most likely not.
If you want another alternative, you can get the beta skip package complete with source from the radwar site, and mod it to your needs.
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Must you level crunch first? Can you not just link together files of normal size that begin at $0801
With so many versions of level packers, it would be hit and miss I'd think trying to find the proper one.
In any event, I have given up even trying. |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1078 |
Sounds like I should clean up my IFFL system and release it...
I just noticed that the IFFL scanner doesn't work on my C128DCR in 1571 mode though (it works fine in 1541 mode). Of course it works just dandy in VICE...
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
^ It's somewhat humbling not to be able to get it to work.
The concept of linking files and calling a loader is not a hard one, I've done it before. However this time I must admit defeat. *sigh*
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Slartibartfast
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 230 |
Quote: ^ It's somewhat humbling not to be able to get it to work.
The concept of linking files and calling a loader is not a hard one, I've done it before. However this time I must admit defeat. *sigh*
That must be a first. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Yes it is :) |
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Slartibartfast
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Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 230 |
Quote: Yes it is :)
Congratulations ;) |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
I'm congratulating myself, actually. For when things are too easy, you become complacant. I love a challenge and used the IFFL system which is new technology to me, to drive myself.
Tonight I sat down and pulled out some utilities and was able to get it to work... however given the various disk drives out there, I think I'll use a normal loader so that everyone may enjoy it. I may opt for an IRQ-loader. Oh the decisions...
When I get some time off this week, I'll finish up this project. Stay tuned.
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Slartibartfast
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 230 |
Quote: I'm congratulating myself, actually. For when things are too easy, you become complacant. I love a challenge and used the IFFL system which is new technology to me, to drive myself.
Tonight I sat down and pulled out some utilities and was able to get it to work... however given the various disk drives out there, I think I'll use a normal loader so that everyone may enjoy it. I may opt for an IRQ-loader. Oh the decisions...
When I get some time off this week, I'll finish up this project. Stay tuned.
This is the co-op game development with Bayliss?
The anticipation is unbearable. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Yep that's the one. :)
No more time for small talk, 200 more disks to upload.. |
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Slartibartfast
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Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 230 |
Quote: Yep that's the one. :)
No more time for small talk, 200 more disks to upload..
Wanderer and Bayliss, who'd have thought the greats of new millenium c64 game development would collaborate on a project. The biggest milestone in 2006 since Old Skool. |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Old Skool was released 49 days ago, and this is only February. I think the term 'milestone' is probably not the best choice of words.
Come talk to me in December on the Lemon 64 scene forum and we can see if it indeed was a milestone.
Oh wait, we can't. You were banned from there. My bad :D
This thread is now off topic, and I have all the information I need from those who chose to respond on-topic. So, have fun.
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Slartibartfast
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 230 |
Quote: Old Skool was released 49 days ago, and this is only February. I think the term 'milestone' is probably not the best choice of words.
Come talk to me in December on the Lemon 64 scene forum and we can see if it indeed was a milestone.
Oh wait, we can't. You were banned from there. My bad :D
This thread is now off topic, and I have all the information I need from those who chose to respond on-topic. So, have fun.
Wanderer and Bayliss developing a game together is surely a milestone indeed.
It'll be like Xmas all over again, except without the stocking.
Congratulations again on your acceptance of IFFL defeat and your upcoming game effort. Huzzah! |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
There have been many a milestone on the C64. Some of them I set, many I didn't. It's not a big deal to me to work on a game with Richard, I've worked with many people in my time on the C64. I'm happy to work with new people and old ones alike :) Think of it like a singer who does co-operative efforts with other musicians.
"It'll be like Xmas all over again, except without the stocking."
You have no idea.
Regarding IFFL, it's not a defeat. I mean IFFL didn't reach through the screen and start to strangle me to which I had to submit. I simply became frustrated with it and gave up for a time. I guess you missed the message where I said I managed to get it working. Then again, I'm sure none of us were successful the very first time we tried to use a linker or a cruncher. We learn by experience, even me!
It wasn't easy asking for help, but I did, and received some very good responses from some knowledgable people.
Who knows maybe we'll see a game or demo from you some day too. Besides the Game Overview, there's been very little from you in over a decade.
I count 94 (give or take what counts and what doesn't) releases of my own and 8 of yours. Perhaps even you can set a milestone of your own and put something out.
Cheers :D |
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Slartibartfast
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 230 |
Quote: There have been many a milestone on the C64. Some of them I set, many I didn't. It's not a big deal to me to work on a game with Richard, I've worked with many people in my time on the C64. I'm happy to work with new people and old ones alike :) Think of it like a singer who does co-operative efforts with other musicians.
"It'll be like Xmas all over again, except without the stocking."
You have no idea.
Regarding IFFL, it's not a defeat. I mean IFFL didn't reach through the screen and start to strangle me to which I had to submit. I simply became frustrated with it and gave up for a time. I guess you missed the message where I said I managed to get it working. Then again, I'm sure none of us were successful the very first time we tried to use a linker or a cruncher. We learn by experience, even me!
It wasn't easy asking for help, but I did, and received some very good responses from some knowledgable people.
Who knows maybe we'll see a game or demo from you some day too. Besides the Game Overview, there's been very little from you in over a decade.
I count 94 (give or take what counts and what doesn't) releases of my own and 8 of yours. Perhaps even you can set a milestone of your own and put something out.
Cheers :D
Oh, I was sure you humbly accepted defeat regarding IFFL earlier in this thread, seemed like quite a milestone in itself.
Yes, developing a game with Bayliss will surely be another stepping stone to brilliance along with the other milestones you have set in your time.
Of course, there would be no sarcasm involved at all in my comments about the game development prowess of yourself and Richard Bayliss. I guess that goes without saying.
But this thread is now off-topic, and you have all the information you need from those who chose to respond on-topic. So, have fun.
Remember, you have questions, we have answers! |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
In actual fact that is what we call a "figure of speech". I didn't decide to just give up on the whole IFFL concept. Burglar in particular, as well as Fungus, were helpful. If I gave up whenever I was challenged, I'd never have become a programmer on the 64.
>Yes, developing a game with Bayliss will surely be another
>stepping stone to brilliance along with the other
>milestones you have set in your time. Of course, there
>would be no sarcasm involved at all in my comments about
> the game development prowess of yourself and Richard
>Bayliss. I guess that goes without saying.
Of course not. If there was sarcasm, it might be considered to be passive-aggressive. That is, immersing yourself in my messages and slowly but surely turning them off-topic and escalating your behaviour each time. Such behaviour might have led to four prior forum bannings. Naturally I know you are not doing this, and will stop posting off-topic so I know this is not sarcasm from you. :)
>Remember, you have questions, we have answers!
Precisely! The foundation of message forums on every C64 site there is. Every day questions are asked and answered in such forums. Why today, I answered some fellow's question on 1541's, he was new to things but that's how the scene works. People helping people.
Now I'm going to go back uploading and contributing. You can continue to umm err... follow me around as I post I guess.
Cheers :D |
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A Life in Hell
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 204 |
Quote: There have been many a milestone on the C64. Some of them I set, many I didn't. It's not a big deal to me to work on a game with Richard, I've worked with many people in my time on the C64. I'm happy to work with new people and old ones alike :) Think of it like a singer who does co-operative efforts with other musicians.
"It'll be like Xmas all over again, except without the stocking."
You have no idea.
Regarding IFFL, it's not a defeat. I mean IFFL didn't reach through the screen and start to strangle me to which I had to submit. I simply became frustrated with it and gave up for a time. I guess you missed the message where I said I managed to get it working. Then again, I'm sure none of us were successful the very first time we tried to use a linker or a cruncher. We learn by experience, even me!
It wasn't easy asking for help, but I did, and received some very good responses from some knowledgable people.
Who knows maybe we'll see a game or demo from you some day too. Besides the Game Overview, there's been very little from you in over a decade.
I count 94 (give or take what counts and what doesn't) releases of my own and 8 of yours. Perhaps even you can set a milestone of your own and put something out.
Cheers :D
You know, despite your poor phrasing incorrectly crediting Slartibartfast for go(v) generally (aren't you a native speaker? bah!), it's a great example of how quantity doesn't equal, despite the cliche, anything really.
Allow me to join the chorus of people suggesting that you don't create an IFFL that relies on a 1541, btw - games that work with netdrive make life much easier. And there is quite a lot of those mmc64's around, too, being that they're reasonably priced and all (blah blah, i know hardware development for c64 is expensive, i know it's not your fault, don't flame me :-p). |
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Wanderer
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 478 |
Quote: You know, despite your poor phrasing incorrectly crediting Slartibartfast for go(v) generally (aren't you a native speaker? bah!), it's a great example of how quantity doesn't equal, despite the cliche, anything really.
Allow me to join the chorus of people suggesting that you don't create an IFFL that relies on a 1541, btw - games that work with netdrive make life much easier. And there is quite a lot of those mmc64's around, too, being that they're reasonably priced and all (blah blah, i know hardware development for c64 is expensive, i know it's not your fault, don't flame me :-p).
Quantity does not equal quality. Correct.
However among 94 releases, some of which were self-admitted crap, were some quality intros, demos and utilities. In examining some 300 disks that recently were given to me, I was happy to see some of my intros were used on many of those historical games.
My point is not to boast, because I'm not. If someone has put out LESS than one product PER YEAR, they are not in any position to criticize someone else on their game making efforts. The phrase, "put up or shut up" comes to mind.
Produce on the 64 in the year 2006, or STFU and go look at your eight releases.
I'm happy with the current CSDB situation that is free of flaming and fighting, and I'm going to ensure it stays that way on my part. Slarti has a proven record of slowly but certainly immersing himself into my threads and turning them into his own passive-aggressive issues.
IFFL : It was never really a "certainly going to happen" thing. I wanted to see if it would be feasible; I was fascinated by the concept. I considered using it in the final product. Given that some worked on PAL only and others only on the 1541, of course I'm going to side with the "chorus" of people. In an era where you can store games on your PC, I don't think shaving off 10 blocks of game-size and one filing it is going to make or break anybody. Common sense prevails.
Alas, this thread has become so off topic now, that I'm going to abandon it and use PM to ask any further IFFL questions. Thanks to everybody who responded with advice :)
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