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Sixx
Registered: May 2005
Posts: 229 |
Code, how to get started?
An old friend of mine who coded a little in 85-86 was thinking about coding on the c64 again. He was wondering what he needs to get started and began to mumble something about some reference guide. He also wonder what assembler he should use. He will be using VICE. Thanks for heelping out guys.
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QuasaR
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 145 |
Hi!
For a good start use RetroReplay/The Final Cartridge in VICE and the TurboMacroPro ass (find it here: http://turbo.style64.org/tmp.php?cid=about_tmp). Effect ideas you'll find in the VIC-article: http://www.minet.uni-jena.de/~andreasg/c64/vic_artikel/vic_arti..
Then search Google for C-Hacking and off he goes... For linking, I use Beast-Linker (should be on some tool discs on the internet) and for crunching use Exomizer, Pucrunch or AB-Cruncher (there's a nice version by Ninja here on CSDB, I'm too lazy to search for it...).
The best loader is IMHO Dreamload (http://www.the-dreams.de) and that should be enough for a good trackmo... :) |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1078 |
For reference, you'll want the official PRG:
http://project64.c64.org/hw/c64.html
and also Mapping the C64:
http://project64.c64.org/misc/index.html
For a quick instruction reference you can't beat Graham's:
http://www.oxyron.de/html/opcodes02.html
and there's also the excellent All About Your 64:
http://www.the-dreams.de/aay.html
A good introduction to demo coding and effects is Puterman's:
http://user.tninet.se/~uxm165t/demo_programming/demo_prog/demo_..
You'll also want to check out the VIC-Article, which explains a lot about how the VIC works:
http://www.minet.uni-jena.de/~andreasg/c64/vic_artikel/vic_arti..
As for the assembler, just pick any competent 6502 cross assembler, there are dozens of them. I like DAsm and CC65 myself, others like ACME, xa, Tass, and more.
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Mihai
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 29 |
I put them all here :D
The Best C64 Ml tutorial collection |
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raven
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 137 |
And after u read all those guides, take some demos with
effects that interest u & disassemble, disassemble & then
disassemble some more.
Did i say disassemble? :)
Best way to learn, bar none.
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Sixx
Registered: May 2005
Posts: 229 |
Great, thanks y'll...
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Or simply outsource the programming to India :o) |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
Disassemble code? Personally I hate reading other people's generate machine code, sources are OK though. Bugging C64-coders on channel #c-64 on ircnet is MUCH more efficient (at least for me). =) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
Jack, back then there was no IRC man :)
Evem myself had learned fld, raster splitting, and dycp through examining someone else's code in ~90-92 :)
(hm and the tunnel / inner torus from mathematica later)
simple stuff can be quite easily learned from disassembling or the basic concept of the effect. I kept checking code till 2000. Now I rather ask too :) |
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raven
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 137 |
What are u guys talking about..
Going through code using a monitor is fun!
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
I have always hated disassembling other peoples code. It's much more fun trying to guess how something is done. And if you're lucky this exercise can also have the side effect that you come up with an even better way of doing it than the routine you tried to figure out. |
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QuasaR
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 145 |
I second Cruzer and Jackass opinion! It's much more fun to sit in school and thinking of "recoding" effects that one once watching in a demo before getting into school... Yeah, those were the days! Now, IRC is the way to go when you're lazy. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2980 |
I always enjoyed analyzing other people's assembly code. I think Dawnfall and One-Der had most learning effects on me :D |
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pernod
Account closed
Registered: Nov 2004
Posts: 25 |
Sometimes I don't even understand my own code if I disassemble it. ;-P
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
Please, let someone make a nice demo in MonitoR for me to ´investigate´..
It´s -still- the only way I do my shit.
Which is not much,go figure.. ;) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
cruzer,quaser: checking someone's code also has another benefit: you can decide if you can do it faster, you can came up better ideas reinventing it, rather than reinventing the wheel. At my latter code checkings I only took a peek to know how good is it done, and if it's possible to optimize it further. |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
Ive never really looked at other people's code. Never wanted to, spoils the fun.
A couple of times Quetzal has sent me a routine or whatever when we're figuring something out, but Ive never actively disassembled a demo part to see how its done.
It means I suck, but at least I suck honestly :)
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Bones99
Registered: May 2005
Posts: 30 |
Quote: Sometimes I don't even understand my own code if I disassemble it. ;-P
Whew! . I'm glad I'm not the only one .. |
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QuasaR
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 145 |
@Oswald: Maybe that's the difference between me and you and me not beeing such a good coder as you... |
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psymon
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 7 |
How can you even attempt to make a demo interesting without ripping out some code from a game with 4k-10k of Robb Hubbard music? |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1570 |
Quote: How can you even attempt to make a demo interesting without ripping out some code from a game with 4k-10k of Robb Hubbard music?
Huh?
---
8Bit Mayhem - The Commodore 64 Scenemusic Podcast
http://8bitmayhem.blogspot.com/ |
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Jetboy
Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 337 |
Common!
We used to program most of our demos in Parados and early Elysium with Action Replay's (or Final 3) monitor. |
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Stirf
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 26 |
why use VICE?
no actual c64 available?
perhaps programming on pc is more comfortable but on c64 it's more fun!
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Jetboy
Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 337 |
Quote: why use VICE?
no actual c64 available?
perhaps programming on pc is more comfortable but on c64 it's more fun!
That depends.
For me fun in programming is in developing code, not in wasting time on compiling, loading and saving.
Using Vice saves most of that.
It's good we can choose our ways :) |
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
Quote: why use VICE?
no actual c64 available?
perhaps programming on pc is more comfortable but on c64 it's more fun!
Big surprise I got when starting to code again in 2003.
Always used my Powercartridge Monitor so I used it again.
Transfered the code to PC,attached the Power.crt to Vice,and CRASH!
Damn Vice uses $8000-$9... for the .CRT when $01=Default. 8(
Now I code at different locations,but I miss my $90E7!! 8(
Maybe I´ve missed something in the manual and this can be changed?
Wouldn´t be the first time.. ;) |
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THE TEA DRINKER
Registered: Jul 2005
Posts: 39 |
If you use WinVICE why not used the included one?
Personal I better to code on the real c64 with TFC3 or simular. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
I used to code with FC3 + TASM. But nowadays I either use TFR + TASM or TFR + codenet + crossasm.
I hardly use an emulator for running the code, but the code is still written on PC most of the time. TASM cannot compete with a modern text editor and the powerful linking features a good cross assembler offers. |
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Jetboy
Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 337 |
TFR? |
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Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
The Final Replay |
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
Quote: If you use WinVICE why not used the included one?
Personal I better to code on the real c64 with TFC3 or simular.
I don´t think the Vice Monitor is that userfriendly. ;) |
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 677 |
by now probably the most hated monitor :) |
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Clarence
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 121 |
Back in the 90's there wasn't any VIC Article or such. One just put Ice Cream Castle in the drive. With a 'freezer cartridge' equipped c64, EVERYTHING was there. It WAS the VIC Bible for me and probably many other coders. :)
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Jetboy
Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 337 |
Quote: Back in the 90's there wasn't any VIC Article or such. One just put Ice Cream Castle in the drive. With a 'freezer cartridge' equipped c64, EVERYTHING was there. It WAS the VIC Bible for me and probably many other coders. :)
TRUE |
