| |
metalux
Registered: Aug 2011
Posts: 17 |
Old university C64 programming courses?
I'm learning C64 assembler the hard way: reading tutorials, demo sources and forum posts, relatively non-academic in other words. While I do have access to some reference documentation, like the Commodore 64 Programmer's Reference Guide, a big C64 assembler bible would have been helpful. So, have anyone ever heard if there were any university c64 programming courses in the 80's? Have you heard of anything like that? Imagine writing an old C64 assembler exam! That would be fun.
It shouldn't be an impossible scenario. I myself have taken some funny university courses in programming languages like Haskell and MIPS assembly back in the days, but I've never heard of the Commodore 64 in the academic world. |
|
| |
Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1932 |
http://www.the-dreams.de/aay.html has all I really need for looking up. http://codebase64.org is fine for quick lookups and http://www.bombjack.org/commodore/ has all the 80s magazines with their tutorials. For germans there is also http://magicdisk.untergrund.net/
I'd say nowadays there are enough "resources" out there and getting into assembler today is much easier as in the old days.
|
| |
metalux
Registered: Aug 2011
Posts: 17 |
Quote: http://www.the-dreams.de/aay.html has all I really need for looking up. http://codebase64.org is fine for quick lookups and http://www.bombjack.org/commodore/ has all the 80s magazines with their tutorials. For germans there is also http://magicdisk.untergrund.net/
I'd say nowadays there are enough "resources" out there and getting into assembler today is much easier as in the old days.
Thanks, yes, I know these resources. However, I was thinking more about the question whether there were any university courses or not. |
| |
Digger
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 437 |
Try looking for 6502 assembly courses, I've had it in my secondary school :) |
| |
Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
The only piece of advice I can give you is to *not* read other people's source.
It's so much more fun when you figure out how something is done yourself. Why short-circuit the adventure?
|
| |
MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1078 |
Around here they taught 6800/68HC11, 68000, and MIPS, but not 6502. |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
here 8051/8085 was very popular (still is)... see http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikrocomputer_für_Ausbildung |
| |
Conrad
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 849 |
I wasn't at school in the 80s, but in the UK I doubt there were such thing as Commodore 64-based programming courses... I'm certain there were 6502 assembly courses at school, but were targeted more on British-made computers like the BBC Micro, which had a 6502 CPU.
These days, they don't even teach assembly language! It's all Java/C# now. I know because they scrapped 8086 material at my campus 3 years ago, thanks to the "Student Unions" who are basically incapable of getting their head down and study important material. Then again, not everyone out there thinks logically. I learnt 6502 the hard-way... hacking demos/games with Action Replay. |
| |
Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
It was 6800 on those heathkit things here too MV |
| |
E$G
Registered: Dec 2007
Posts: 842 |
In 1982 at school, computer science, we learned to program z80 and 6502 processors. We handled the machine code on Apple II ... then for amusemnt I used it later on my ViC20 and C64 :)
But after more than 20 years of inactivity my c64 memory map it's gone and most of commands gone too ...
Some of my oldskoolers friends have forgotten too .. how to crack & code ... we got to re-start studying!
|
| |
Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2980 |
As far as i know, C-64 was never used or taught at universities. What was and still is used and taught are multi-user Unix (and these days Linux, of course) machines and everything that comes with them.
Which is quite understandable, given that in those days, C-64 might have been a revolution in the home segment, but the technology was pretty much outdated by university standards already, given that they've had pre-emptive multi-tasking, memory protection, networking, advanced shells and toolchains and all that since like the 60s, not to mention vastly superior computing resources in terms of memory and processing speed. And they never cared much for sprites or 8-bit sound synthesis, either.
Conrad: assembly language is still taught at universities. Not in-depth, for obvious reasons, but it is required to a certain degree. |
| |
Exile
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 58 |
We used the BBC microcomputers, english and german models at highschool in 1987. Mostly basic coding, assembly was a bridge to far.
|
| |
T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quoting ConradI wasn't at school in the 80s, but in the UK I doubt there were such thing as Commodore 64-based programming courses... I'm certain there were 6502 assembly courses at school, but were targeted more on British-made computers like the BBC Micro, which had a 6502 CPU.
i did "computing" at GCSE which was BASIC programming on Z80-based Link 480Z machines and started an A level in the subject which was Pascal on BBC Masters from what i saw. i'd already taught myself 6502 by that point using a book called VIC 20 Machine Code, the C64 Programmer's Reference Guide and lots of experimentation. |
| |
Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
On the subject of computers and school - I never forget, the time computers came out. School being school, set up a room called, imaginatively *The Computer Room*. It was serious business. Access to the room was granted to a select few. You had to be in top for Maths, and be top of the top. This narrowed things down to about 6 people in the entire school. Thats maths teachers for you.
There was a small window in the door to The Room. Through it 4x BBC Micros 2x Acorn Electrons and 1x unknown large black computer with black and white monitor could be observed. One lunch time I managed to sneak into The Room, where a programmer was playing a basic looking horizontal scroll shootem up.
I along with others opted to buy ZX Spectrums, and turned to a life of piracy ;D |
| |
Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
At my highschool we had a room full of Microbees, but in year 9 the school splurged and after a review period (where several machines were loaned and tested) we got a couple of classrooms full of Amiga 1000s.
Them being the future and all, over PCs and Macs :)
|
| |
Achim
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2010
Posts: 28 |
Last year the University of Bielefeld offered a c64 course for game coding: http://ekvv.uni-bielefeld.de/kvv_publ/publ/vd;jsessionid=8FFD07..
I doubt that there were any c64 courses in german schools in the 80's. My school had a bunch of Apple II computers. There were two courses: LOGO for the masses (seriously) and Pascal for the advanced (like me, ehm...). I taught myself 6502 ML on my c64. I still remember sitting in class and thinking on how to write a packer. |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Quote:I doubt that there were any c64 courses in german schools in the 80's.
commodore *did* sponsor PET and C64 setups (much more than apple did actually, at least in germany) - and i have seen them at a bunch of schools (i ehrm... tested a few =D).
the school where my father is teaching physics was using them until the mid 90s or so. |
| |
TPM
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 110 |
Quote:Last year the University of Bielefeld offered a c64 course for game coding: http://ekvv.uni-bielefeld.de/kvv_publ/publ/vd;jsessionid=8FFD07..
cool! :D |
| |
MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1078 |
Quoting AchimLast year the University of Bielefeld offered a c64 course for game coding: http://ekvv.uni-bielefeld.de/kvv_publ/publ/vd;jsessionid=8FFD07..
Where can we see the output from last year's students? |
| |
chancer
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 347 |
at college we did a very small bit on 6502 or BBC micro as part of electronics, a sub section of the B-tec we were studying.. you could type in the commands from the basic prompt as you would basic..
Z80 was used on another course mainly to do with electronics.
on a HND later we did a very small bit of 8088 (from debug in dos prompt)
|
| |
Achim
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2010
Posts: 28 |
@MagerValp: I dropped Mr. Hegel (sic!) a mail. He's one of the three teachers. Let's see... |
| |
Ninja
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 411 |
Doc Bacardi had a university course at FH Gummersbach where 6502 assembly was taught (dunno the title, probably something like "microprocessor architecture"). Been there once, too, was fun :) That must have been in the early 2000s. |
| |
Achim
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2010
Posts: 28 |
...and here's what Mr. Hegel said:
"The students didn't finish their games, but coded playable demos. My initial idea was to release the results on the internet, but the results didn't hit a fair quality for 2010. This was due to the fact that the students had no experience in coding 8-bit computers and due to the peculiarities of the c64. If we ever pick up this topic again, we'll probably choose a more simple architecture like Intellivision or Atari VCS 2600."
He wondered if there's still an active scene. He coded his last intro in 1988. |
| |
metalux
Registered: Aug 2011
Posts: 17 |
Quote: ...and here's what Mr. Hegel said:
"The students didn't finish their games, but coded playable demos. My initial idea was to release the results on the internet, but the results didn't hit a fair quality for 2010. This was due to the fact that the students had no experience in coding 8-bit computers and due to the peculiarities of the c64. If we ever pick up this topic again, we'll probably choose a more simple architecture like Intellivision or Atari VCS 2600."
He wondered if there's still an active scene. He coded his last intro in 1988.
Haha, that's fascinating. I wonder what Mr. Hegel's handle was. |
| |
MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1078 |
Quoting Achim...and here's what Mr. Hegel said: Cool, thanks.
Quoting Herr Dr.-Ing. Frank Hegel...a more simple architecture like Intellivision or Atari VCS 2600. Heh. Simpler, yes. Easier to program for? Hell no. :)
|
| |
Ervin
Registered: May 2008
Posts: 14 |
Well, my 2 cents are: first establish a decent framework, which eases the development, including simple graphics import and loader library, and maybe some event handling. This naturally limits or directs the development to a certain direction, but it also helps much with avoiding typical pitfalls. (No, I'm not talking about SEUCK :)
E.g. at our univ OpenGL is taught using GLut, which is "a decent framework, which eases the development", but also have some restrictions, which typically do not interfere with the main subject. |
