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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
Does Interlace really suck ?
Back in 96 IFLI was all the hype, nobody really cared about the flickering if the picture was pixeled with a good technique.
Back in 96 Multicolor sized pixels were considered nice and not blocky, hires wasnt so overhyped.
and I think the shifting viewpoint to a great extent boils down to the wide used emulators. Everyone uses emulators today, and yes, interlace looks like shit in them, and multicolor pixels looks like huge square blocks in them.
Everyone should take some time and check the best laced pictures on a real thing with a real TV, and check multicolor / hires difference. I remember back in the time thinking that hires is actually to HIGH resolution, as a normal TV can hardly display such a pixels.
The lesson is: Interlace is only a flickering nightmare if not watched on TV, and multicolor pix has ugly big pixels only if not watched on a TV. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
since a year I think that someone should finally explore the c64 hires mode like spectrum gfxers do their :) Anyone does this will be a new gfx hero :)
we took the step backwards so now instead of fli-> koala is the standard for multicolor, now its time for explore the plain hires mode for full potential :)
edit:
these pics also prove my old point: a kewl gfxmode doesnt makes kewl pics, kewl gfxers make kewl pics.(c64 hires anyone ? :) |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
I'm glad the scene finally is catching up. :-) |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Those Speccy pics are really amazing. Hard to believe there's only 2 colors/char. |
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DeeKay
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 362 |
Quote:
I'm glad the scene finally is catching up. :-)
ROTFL! Good one! ;-)
I've always liked Hires, I've made quite some gfx in AFLI (most of which never were released unfortunately!), actually it's what i started out with (only some Amica Paint and lots of charsets came before!).
Look at Krestyron f.ex., the Crest Logo in the Intro is from that time, that was one of my first Crest-Logo. Yes, it's really AFLI, no Sprites used! ;-) I've managed to do the diagonal line plus dithered colorfades with some _very_ careful arranging.
I used the very very buggy Hires Manager from Cosmos for my work since it allowed block-copy. Good program, but VERY annoying bugs! ;-)
oh, btw: The colorful background behind the scroller in the Krestology Endpart is also hires - plain, no FLI...
But I gotta say your Hires stuff is damn amazing, twoffie! 8) What was that hires conversion of the junkie picture called you were working on on some TP? |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
The picture from that TP? Hmm, that'd be Big Bird which later was featured in Over the Edge. Actually, that picture featured quite a lot of sprites, but there are a lot of later images which actually are more or less straight hiresimages. The logo in Under the Edge, the Fidel picture in Macho Programming and the blaxplo guy from Sphaeristerium are all in standard hires (2 colors/char), although interlaced. Then I haven't even touched the issue of The Throckmorton Device which features some bigtime experiments with hires+interlace. Some of you guys could rant on all you want about flickering hurting your eyes, but to be frank - hires (1x1 pixel) interlace are mostly not even visible on the real thing, unlike f.ex IFLI. |
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DeeKay
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 362 |
Quote:
Some of you guys could rant on all you want about flickering hurting your eyes, but to be frank - hires (1x1 pixel) interlace are mostly not even visible on the real thing, unlike f.ex IFLI.
Preach on, brother! ;-) The reason for this is quite simple:
a) c64 pixels aren't square at all but stretched about 33% vertically (draw a block of 20x20 chars on the screen and use your ruler!)
b) PAL blends pixels horizontally much more than vertically (IFLI-line-interlace) -> less delta between the colors because they already are mixed through hires -> less flickering! Draw a hires-char with alternating lines in two colors and then with alternating columns to see what i mean!
c) the smaller the area is that the interlace occurs the less noticeable it is. Hires is already hires, there's no need to fake it through $d016, so with hires interlace YOU decide where the flickering actually is! And if it's just on some tiny antialiasing-pixels, you have to look REALLY hard to see it! ;-) |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1055 |
Quote:
a) c64 pixels aren't square at all but stretched about 33% vertically (draw a block of 20x20 chars on the screen and use your ruler!)
It varies from monitor to monitor, but 33% is way too much. On my 1901 it's about 10%.
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DeeKay
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 362 |
Okay, my monitor seems to be adjusted a bit off, let's say around 15-20%! ;-) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11100 |
15% is still too much. this has been discussed numerous times before though, there is even a thread here which has the exact numbers (exact as in assuming an "ideal" monitor). |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
Quote: Those Speccy pics are really amazing. Hard to believe there's only 2 colors/char.
Not only that, but those 2 colors per char have to be at the same brightness. They can't put light blue/dark blue in the same color cell. That's why they always contrast to black: light black = dark black :) |
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