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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
Does Interlace really suck ?
Back in 96 IFLI was all the hype, nobody really cared about the flickering if the picture was pixeled with a good technique.
Back in 96 Multicolor sized pixels were considered nice and not blocky, hires wasnt so overhyped.
and I think the shifting viewpoint to a great extent boils down to the wide used emulators. Everyone uses emulators today, and yes, interlace looks like shit in them, and multicolor pixels looks like huge square blocks in them.
Everyone should take some time and check the best laced pictures on a real thing with a real TV, and check multicolor / hires difference. I remember back in the time thinking that hires is actually to HIGH resolution, as a normal TV can hardly display such a pixels.
The lesson is: Interlace is only a flickering nightmare if not watched on TV, and multicolor pix has ugly big pixels only if not watched on a TV. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11116 |
oh really?
o_O |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2845 |
It would help a lot if people would actually display interlaced stuff the right way, i.e., with alternating $d016 each line and not only once per frame.
Just check HCL's Interruptus Retriggerus. (Or Bar4Kode, to do some more shameless self-advertisement.) |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
Yeah people cared a lot about "good pixeling" back in '96, that's also why so many wired pictures won in the gfx compos in the mid 90's.
Btw, I can clearly see hires pixels on my monitor. And using a seperate Chroma/Luma cable will give you very sharp hires pixels aswell... |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
Considering interlace. If the majority would bother to check interlaced images on the real thing, they would most likely cry much less about teh evil flickering.
Today, graphicians who, driven by some reasons influenced by Belsebub himself, dare to pixel laced images (and none the less, take care about reducing flickering to a real minimal level with awfully hard work that actually requires extraterrestrial skills sometimes) usually face with three kinds of negative reaction:
1. The well proven 'Deekay-method of witch-hunting'.
- "Boooh! It's sooo easy to pixel in IFLI, and you probably wire too, because it's IFLI. And it flickers. FLI+Flickering+Hires is evil. XYZFLI+flickering+Hires and everything else isn't. Period."
These kind of reactions prove that they most likely don't have the fucking clue, never tried to pixel anything in IFLI or just trying to express their personal failure in pixelling IFLI.
2. The more usual 'I-watch-everything-on-the-emu-and-I-haven't-moved-my-fat-butt-for-ages-but-I-ke ep-complaining-about-everything' method.
- "Boooh! It flickers! It hurts my eyes! You should learn to pixel non-flickering pictures {because they look so much bettah in Vice}!"
Well, they just don't give a shit about turning on the real thing... Explanations follow: "I don't have the space on my desktop for a c64", "I only check the quality stuff and your flickering fuck is everything but quality", "I don't have the time", "I don't have a working C64", "I just don't like flickering", etc, etc...
3. The mature, arty approach
- "Boooh! Every image that is _not_ flickering and has a funny charicature on it is considered art and original. Consequently, flickering images, especially if they do not contain a funny charicature or random montague of machines, buildings and wires suck by default".
On the other hand, I never heard people complaining about blocky "low-res" pictures. So multicolor is the way to go. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
Jailbird, I am checking those pictures on the real thing and they flicker like hell. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
Quote: Jailbird, I am checking those pictures on the real thing and they flicker like hell.
That's because you have a seperate chroma/luma cable and a very sensitive pair of eyes. I should update that IFLI ditching list of mine. |
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Jak T Rip
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 39 |
I inherently dislike "this sucks" talk.
Obviously, interlace modes tend to flicker, but flickering can be reduced alot by both good drawing and coding techniques (cool tip krill, I gotta try it out some day, if ever I find the time, that is..). I'd say the amount of the flickering also depends on the monitor or tv-set (so on some TVs it might be more or less disturbing), on the distance you have to your tv and on your personal ETFTR "eye-to-flicker-tolerance-ratio" :)))
And yes, also on emulatorism and poor gfx palette settings.
However, what's the point? Some like ifli and some don't.
I personally think it's sad that we have so few AFLI pictures like those by Zeldin in the Cascade demos. Oxidy and FLI or TCH and UFLI of course rock, but I sometimes also love flicky stuff, just think of cyclone's astronaut picture in deus ex! Completely cool style that could not be carried over to any of the other modes without loss of its feeling, maybe BECAUSE it flickers!?
I don't think there is a best-one-way for c64 gfx. Use all the modes and respect all the modes! (did anyone deal a bit more with that strange ultrahires-greyscale mode by some polish sceners?)
Also it's a pity there are so few sprite+rasterbar/split supported multicolour or hires gfx.
btw: did you notice the red ball in the ptv intro flickers? It actually consists of a hires pic plus 3 differently expanded sprites, and some flicker... :) |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
Righty. There's no such thing as an universal taste and noone should bother finding it. Some like interlaced images, some not. Gosh, the way of life.
But one thing is for sure. Graphics, and especially interlaced stuff always look extraugly on the emulators (at least compared to the real deal). Thus, I must approve Oswald's initial question. Emulated interlace sucks indeed. |
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Monte Carlos
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 351 |
Uhh, someone mentioned "Cascade Demos". I make a cross in my calendar. ;)
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 465 |
Some IFLI pics are rather nice. Some appear to be IFLI for the sake of IFLI. Some seem to be drawn to induce a seizure of some sort.
I must be one of the sensitive people. I use split chroma/luminance with my 1701 and I notice a large portion of IFLI pics are distracting in how they flicker. |
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