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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 110 |
Need beta testers
Hi, soon I'll start the closed beta phase of my MDG Mod-Converter. I'm looking for talented musicians who are familiar creating music for the C64 (Goattracker prefered) and also know how to make sampled music with a Protracker compatbile editor like Open ModPlugtracker. Just pm me and we'll check details later.
Greetings THCM |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3136 |
/me points to Linus/Viruz.
He has experience in both amiga mods and GT =) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1292 |
me and randall wanna be!!! |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
I see a new C64.SK compo coming up ;-) |
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 110 |
@Mace Very good idea. That's the reason I'll release my Converter to the public, because I want to listen to all those beautiful tunes in the near future. |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
More Amiga mods for the c64 ? awww .. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1292 |
stainless >> hush! :P |
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 110 |
You can't stop the progress as long as the world is turning, things change and you're gonna face it! By the way I still need the email adresses from some guys here. I think we'll start on sunday with the closed beta! |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
i'll just wait for a final release..
dunno goattracker anyway
made 87 mods in 88-96...
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 110 |
@rambones You can use any other sidplayer you like, you'll only need to keep track of voice 3. |
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Conrad
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 835 |
So it's just matter of disabling voice 3 on the music player? So in GT's case, nop out the code that goes something like:
ldx #$0e // (voice 3 lookup index for GT player)
jsr <track_routine>
However, does voice 3 require constant pulse width/frequency/ADSR pre-set, or is this all done by your routine? |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Quoting THCMYou can't stop the progress as long as the world is turning, things change and you're gonna face it!
I can still choose to ignore them :-D
That being said, i recognize the technical achievement. But if people "just" do tunes that sound like Amiga mods, its not my cup of tea. |
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 110 |
Quote: Quoting THCMYou can't stop the progress as long as the world is turning, things change and you're gonna face it!
I can still choose to ignore them :-D
That being said, i recognize the technical achievement. But if people "just" do tunes that sound like Amiga mods, its not my cup of tea.
What's so bad about tracker like music? Everything denpends on your own creativity. If you don't like real instruments, just digitize your original c64 sounds (drums for example) and use them as samples to get more voices. If you don't like to compose with Protracker you even can compose directly in the sourcecode. Ok, you only heard some old converted Amiga mods and the compo tune made by Fanta. The compo tune was made in a hurry to have something for the party and yes we know, that it only uses samples from old Amiga mods.
I've chosen the Protracker format, because it was the easiest way to compose directly with 6 or more voices. Goatracker has a tool to convert Protracker patterns.
I would like to invite you to our beta team and please surpise us with your creativity!
@Conrad My replayer sets ADSR to $00F0 and you can change sustain and or filter with your sidreplayer. Keep in mind that the frequence register will be written by the digiroutine. |
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 110 |
The closed beta has started today. Everyone invited got mail today. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1292 |
Quote: So it's just matter of disabling voice 3 on the music player? So in GT's case, nop out the code that goes something like:
ldx #$0e // (voice 3 lookup index for GT player)
jsr <track_routine>
However, does voice 3 require constant pulse width/frequency/ADSR pre-set, or is this all done by your routine?
just don't write anything in the 3rd channel while composing in GT ;) even speed command there can mess up :P |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Quoting THCMI would like to invite you to our beta team and please surpise us with your creativity!
Unfortunatley, I'm not into GT. |
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 110 |
There's no need to use GT. You can use any player you want. Init is $0d00 and play is $0d03 and it should not touch the 3rd voice. |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
THCM: you have a PM from me! |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Also if I'm not mistaken, it wont run on VICE and i don't possess any C64 Hardware. |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Quoting Stainless Steel:"i don't possess any C64 Hardware" ZOMGWTF?!11!1!eins |
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 110 |
Quote: Also if I'm not mistaken, it wont run on VICE and i don't possess any C64 Hardware.
A beta of WinVice is included with support for waveform digis. Just press the magic button and it automagically starts playing the music on your Windows-PC and if you like, come to Gummersbach and get one of my C64! |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Quoting THCMA beta of WinVice is included with support for waveform digis.
Arrrr, Windows. I'm on Linux now :-D
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Just out of curiosity, how does this actually work ?
I compose my mod stuff with a tracker and then what ? how do i fuse the two things together then ?
Must I separately call the digi routine and the music routine from my irq ?
And whats the deal with the third channel ? I've got only sid channels 1 & 2 available ?
Whats the rastertime usage like ?
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1292 |
stainless >> let's join the testing team then ;) program does everything for you :) you might employ 1st and 2nd channel and, god forbid, do not touch 3rd channel. just put no commands there. rastertime of the whole routine is, errr..., huge :D but these are samples, aren't they? :D |
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 110 |
Quote: Quoting THCMA beta of WinVice is included with support for waveform digis.
Arrrr, Windows. I'm on Linux now :-D
The Converter works using Wine. SounDemoN tested it, but I don't know if there's a natvie WinVice 2.05 beta for linux. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11146 |
you can always checkout the latest version from svn and build it yourself in linux....
(and that said, the same *should* be true for that sample converter thingy =P) |
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 110 |
Quote: you can always checkout the latest version from svn and build it yourself in linux....
(and that said, the same *should* be true for that sample converter thingy =P)
It's written with PureBasic and I've got no Linux installed to port it, but perhaps I'll release the source with the converter. It uses the free r8brain.dll for HQ downsampling and I don't know, if this works with native Linux or other OSes like MacOSX. |
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AmiDog
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 97 |
*bump* Any tunes released? Beta-testing going well? |
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 110 |
Beta testing is very slow at the moment and I don't have much time to continue improving my converter. Jammer made a small nice tune and HJE did a few test patterns. No big bugs were found and the new planned release date will be this easter at the breakpoint party. So if anybody wants to join the beta team, feel free to contact me and I'll send you all the details. |
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AmiDog
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 97 |
Was the converter released at BP? |
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 321 |
Hi THMC - I'd love to beta test your mod converter/player mate.. I am very interested in becoming a beta tester to help out with your nice routines! I too use Goattracker for composing most of my SID tunes, I have knowledge of assembly for the 64 but I mainly write music. I also -still- write modules for the Amiga using Protracker 2.1A and Octamed (V4-V5 and Soundstudio) and also PC using Fasttracker-II running under dosbox. Also, I run all my C64 software on my real C128-D (PAL/6581 machine).
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 110 |
@Adam You've got a PM.
@AmiDog No, I could not attend the bp09 party and I will release it at the next bigger party I'll attend to (X-20__ ?). At the moment I'm trying to get rid of some of the flaws of my replayer (20% faster than PAL timing, no volume and frequency changes for all 4 voices), but I don't think that it's possible to have different volumes, flexible frequency changes and 8 bit waveform output at the same time. The normal $D418 output takes 32 cycles per sample every 2 rasterlines and the waveform output needs 56-63 cycles for each sample. I'm still investigating... |
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booker
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 333 |
THCM: you were PM'd. |
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AmiDog
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 97 |
@THCM
So I guess that means zero chances of a stereo SID version with, say, 2 SID voices and 2 samples per SID? With something like that, one could create neat SID remixes on the real thing :-) I'd love to hear Instant remedys Ocean loader v2 remix backported to the real thing :-) |
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 110 |
Why a 2nd sid? Only the 3rd voice will be used for outputting 4 mixed sampled voices. I think 6 voices (2 sid and 4 sampled) in total should be enough to remix an old sid tune. Just replace the drumline with some fancy sampled ones and of you go. |
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Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547 |
I also don't see the point in having a 2nd sid chip... one could build something a lot better for playing samples and connect it to the c64 and use that as soundcard then.... would just be silly... The charm lies in getting as much out of the existing hardware, if you ask me. :-) |
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LOGAN
Account closed
Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 71 |
the suspence is killing me. Will a release be made this year? Will (or are) there some songs released? I'm growing a beard here, hehe. Almost want to subscribe to beta test just to get my hands on the tech :) |
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 110 |
@Logan Some tunes were used in this demo: Vicious Sid there are some bonus Amiga .mods on the disk. The only original tune released should be the X-2008 compo tune by Fanta: Fanta in Space it's the only tune with 6 active voices at the same time so far. The tech behind the waveform form output was explained by SounDemoN here: Vandalism News #50 I don't know, when I'll release the final version, but I think it will be at the next X-Party. Perhaps I'll release a beta version a bit earlier, but at least I want to give the beta team a little advantage;) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11146 |
somehow the whole thing feels disappointing and almost abandoned =P the fact that noone bothered to even disassemble the player and mess around with it tells a lot already =P
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 110 |
What makes you so sure no one disassembled it already? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11146 |
not only looked at it, but also made something out if it i mean ofcourse. it's almost a year now since X, and nothing using that new technique surfaced so far - personally i expected a flood of tunes at BP already, and that there wasnt even one... again tells a lot. |
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LOGAN
Account closed
Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 71 |
I share Groopaz's feeling a bit. I've seen the demo from 29 October 2008 and waiting since the time I seen it for more tunes, an editor or demos.
The theory behing the tech isn't as interesting as actually seeing it used. In the old days this would have been revolutionary and surely used left and right. Nowadays people seem to have less time thus groundbreaking things like this music and things like that new FLI mode are turning up but hardly used for a long time.
I understand you want some exclusive releases using it and a big party to release it... But the waiting for it is a digital torture in it's own way :D
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 110 |
Uses this forum something like a timeout? I wrote a veery long post here regarding the story of my converter, but now everything is gone...
In short form: Join the beta team and create something original for the community. |
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LOGAN
Account closed
Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 71 |
I mostly copy the text before submit in case something goes wrong :|
Maybe I should join up with the beta test to experiment with it :)
What is the original name for this music format? MDG?
And will it also support (later maybe) diskloading for the ability for more samples? (Or maybe REU expansions too?)
Thanks for the trouble :) |
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booker
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 333 |
Quote: not only looked at it, but also made something out if it i mean ofcourse. it's almost a year now since X, and nothing using that new technique surfaced so far - personally i expected a flood of tunes at BP already, and that there wasnt even one... again tells a lot.
It only tells your expectations weren't fulfilled. Datz all :) |
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LOGAN
Account closed
Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 71 |
Maybe alot of people find samples blasphemy, but personally I like it, if used in the right way.
:) |
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 110 |
@Logan The music format isn't a new invention. The patterns of a Protracker .mod file will be converted and packed into nearly the same format most sidplayer like the Jesper Olsen Player or the one from MON uses. It's also not necessary to use my converter at all. You can also type the tune into the replayer source and assemble it, just like in the old days.
I will never add support for the REU, SCPU or the c128. Everything has to work with an unexpanded C64 + 1541. My intention was never to 'built' another Protracker replayer for the C64, but to add more voices with the highest possible quality to the SID as possible. It's ofcourse possible to load samples while playing like Mixer did in our Vicious Sid Demo, but I think that this feature will only be used on special purpose like a demo or somehting and it will need a lot of handwork.
Perhaps it was a mistake to release Vicious Sid with all those borrowed tunes from the Amiga, but the time was too short to create new tunes and we really wanted to present the new technology. Vicious Sid wasn't meant to compete with the big demos like Edge of Disgrace and perhaps it was our luck, that the organizers forgot to put us on the vote disks. There were a lot good reactions after our release, but also some not so good ones and I also know why... |
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LOGAN
Account closed
Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 71 |
If the bad reactions were only about using Amiga tunes then they went totally past the technical side of things. But I can understand that -A BIT. Nonetheless it was a breakthrough. You don't hear those complaints when a DVD is re-released on BlueRay, or watch an old movie on HD :)
About the expanded functions (REU, C128, irqloading) I understand, was just dreaming of even greater things I guess. (Although irqloading means more samples.)
So then theres probably no crunched/decrunching of samples then :) |
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 110 |
In my opinion it makes no sense to support some rare configurations of hardware. If you like listening to Amiga Protracker modules use an Amiga or a good player on a PC. I know that I can achieve a higher sample rate on a C128 and having more space is always good, but then it's no competition anymore.
IRQ-Loading with the actual player makes no sense, because it would be too slow. With about 5-15 rasterlines left, it would take ages to load. With only one or two digi voices it could work a lot better and perhaps I'll implement adpcm (de)compression for at least one voice, but I don't know if there's enough raster time left to decompress one voice on the fly, but it would give us a 1:2 compression. |
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PopMilo
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 145 |
Is there a txt version of the article from Vandalism News ?
Or do I have to retype it ? :)
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11146 |
Quote:In short form: Join the beta team and create something original for the community.
i remember it more like: unless you release it, it doesn't exist :)
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 110 |
Quote: Quote:In short form: Join the beta team and create something original for the community.
i remember it more like: unless you release it, it doesn't exist :)
In fact it does exist! Go on and disassemble it and make something out of it on your own. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11146 |
i have disassembled the basic routine to play a sample with that method long ago, and i have no further interest in it really (i am not a musician afterall). |
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 110 |
Yep, me too. I'm also no musician and everything started only to show Aleksi Eeben that it's indeed possible to play a 4 channel digi music with screen enabled using the nmi and having some action going on. |
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enigma
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 14 |
Is there any news regarding the C128 version of the player?
Due to 2 MHz, MMU ZP movement and more memory I heard there might be also other features as variable volume per channel possible?
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 110 |
Quote: Is there any news regarding the C128 version of the player?
Due to 2 MHz, MMU ZP movement and more memory I heard there might be also other features as variable volume per channel possible?
In theory with 2 MHz a full flavoured protracker module replay routine with 7800hz should be no problem, but I don't think I'll ever release a special version for the bigger memory of the C128 or add special features which aren't possible on a stock C64. Perhaps I'll add an option to use the 2 MHz for better mixing routines or a higher mixing rate. The main goal is to get the most out of a stock C64 and that means sid voices and high quality samples at the same time. |
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 110 |
The new beta is out and all members of the closed beta team got a mail with the download link. If your mail adress has changed or you didn't receive a mail in the mean time, leave me a PM. |
