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Forums > C64 Composing > Composing music in general, techniques, hints and tips

2011-02-10 11:46

Hermit

Registered: May 2008
Posts: 208

Composing music in general, techniques, hints and tips

What I really miss is a topic about music composing in general. If I haven't found an existing topic regarding this, but if we have any, let me know about it.
(There are many topics in Composing section, thanks god there's a good seraching engine. However it would be great to have more categories inside 'Composing' for easier browsing.)

I want to start this topic about the music composition itself, which is always a mystic topic and there's no real perfect method of teaching it in schools even nowadays.
On one hand this is the beauty of composing, that it cannot be described consciously in its entire form, and one can never say he learned everything.

I want to write a book/article in the future about the logic and lexical knowledge behind music composition, as there aren't a lot of comprehensive books or webpages that give us a complete picture and directions to improve.
One good (and possibly a standard) is Arnold Schoenberg's 'Fundamentals of Musical Composition', which gives a lot of understanding to composition itself (not music theory!).

If you have knowledge and experiences which you want to share with composers all around, feel free post your replies into this topic... and at the end we will have something at CSDB which will be a guide to refresh the spirit and knowledge of musical composition.

What this topic would exclude:
-The music theory (literature about chords, staff, etc..) - many books and videos can be found all around on the net.
-The use of trackers and analog synthesis techniques of SID, which is another topic, bit related of course...and has been discussed already afaik.

I'm looking forward your contributions with tips as well as questions/replies - discussions :)

Hermit Software Hungary

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2011-02-16 18:39

SIDWAVE
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238

Groepaz, ok i have a violin you can try.
Linus, ok and i know

Hermit, youre recipe, is a recipe, its more or less how things are done.

Some do it by schooling, some do it be deliberate choise, and most just do it.

i think i cannot use all the theories for anything personally, i do what feels right. i have my own vibe, and i am trying to be myself.

Music is a language, not a theory.

i am so skizo :) i both believe that you can learn from some basic rules, and i believe it not, because i am self taught.

Every time i have followed any rules, my life has gone the wrong way, i feel that everything and everybody is holding me down, its like a virus, they want to format me to a certain pattern. "be like us, be normal, do like us, be one of us" etc. its now 25 years into the sidwave and it hasnt happened yet.

i will check back, hermit.

2011-02-16 19:01

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11093

Quote:

Groepaz, ok i have a violin you can try.

haha =) i tried (actually took some lessons when i was 10 or so) and i can assure you it would be horrible =) maybe a could squeeze out a real out of tune scale or something like that =)

2011-02-16 20:14

SIDWAVE
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238

/MUSICIANS/H/Harries_Jan/Bachs_Violinconcert_in_C.sid
/MUSICIANS/H/Harries_Jan/Violin_for_Zoids.sid

22 years is between these 2 tunes.

now listen. you have never really listened the last tune.
i know you havent.

do it now.

2011-02-16 20:32

SIDWAVE
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238

Now listen this:
http://soundcloud.com/sidwave/jan-harries-skizofrenia-1

Any theory behind this will be hard to explain, but listen how it changes mood all the time, while keeping a core nerve.
That all i can say about that.

2011-02-16 20:51

Digger

Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 421

How about tremolo guitar (volume+vibrato sweep), tremolo arpeggio or dubstep like modulated bass? Have you came across such SID tunes? (I can hear you Linus!)

2011-02-16 20:53

jssr67
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2011
Posts: 33

Quoting rambones

Music is a language, not a theory.

Absolutely true. But to every language, there is a theory called grammar, dealing with syntactical aspects. And another one, dealing with semantic aspects. For being able to express oneself in a language, both knowing the theories or having good intuition helps.

Quoting rambones

i am so skizo :)

...yes, we had that issue earlier in the thread ;-)

2011-02-17 00:23

NecroPolo

Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 231

Quoting Hermit

I especially like the 'sea' metaphor, similar to the 'ocean' principle of Necropolo :)

http://www.integralworld.net/dallman2.html

Good read. Composing through inspiration, outside-in direction, tossing the mind into a raw creative state, then organising ideas into a construction, realised as blocks and patterns (C64 heritage perhaps)... All makes sense to me. Thanks for the link!

2011-02-17 01:28

SIDWAVE
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238

Quote: Quoting rambones
Music is a language, not a theory.

Absolutely true. But to every language, there is a theory called grammar, dealing with syntactical aspects. And another one, dealing with semantic aspects. For being able to express oneself in a language, both knowing the theories or having good intuition helps.

Quoting rambones
i am so skizo :)

...yes, we had that issue earlier in the thread ;-)

Its just that: its impractical to apply too much theory to music, because it has no limits.

With a synth that can do almost endlessly different sounds, and the fact that you can mix as many tracks down as you want, the limit is gone, so only theory left, is to control your head to make music that reminds you of inspired stuff, or certain styles, or what you wanna make.

2011-02-17 08:37

Hermit

Registered: May 2008
Posts: 208

From another aspect, I would say music has many dimensions, and as such, cannot be described in 2 dimensional theories. Just in physical view, one dimension is time (say horizontal) for sure (which can be wrapped inside a vision of a moment), one is the pitches (say vertical), and in spectral distribution (harmonies, overtones, etc.) we can talk about a quasi third dimension...what more, our creative brain adds dimension of feelings, where music theory just fails to give us thorough possibilities.

Many times I investigated my melodies which I constructed without incorporating theories, and I found out that music theory possibly cannot describe/explain all of the components.
It's good for teaching default and common observations, but there are always many exceptions and extensions to theory in real world's musical masterpieces...they can only be captured completely by smart listening (which we will do soon).
------------------------------------------

There's an interesting rule, namely the 'golden ratio' which is based on observation of the nature. It must have something in common with our sense of beauty even in music. After investigating music of masters (like Bartok), many times the golden ratio has been observed in chords/melodic intervals or in structural arrangement and place of climax.
Interesting readings about golden ratio and fibonacci related to music:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio#Music
http://goldennumber.net/music.htm
http://goldensectionmusic.blogspot.com/

2012-12-11 21:10

Hermit

Registered: May 2008
Posts: 208

http://www.google.hu/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=schoenberg%20fundamentals..
seems to be a good summary/extension of Schoenberg's book...

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