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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
Turrican 3
Has anyone played Turrican 3? if so, what do you think :)
I've had a quick go, not had the time to have a proper go just yet. So far though i have mixed opinions. Credit where credit is due, the play does play like Turrican and Turrican 2. The graphics on level 1 seemed too much like Turrican and the 1st big (mid level) boss turned out to be a big fist, which was a bit of a let down, as after all, there is a big fist as a mid level boss during the first Turrican (although on the Turrican 3 the fist is animated).
The collision seems somewhat iffy at times, there appears to be no in game sound fx? and the screen glitches alot when lots of enemies appear on screen (although i was using an emu, so maybe this does not happen on real c64).
All in all, the game does seem like good fun. I will need to play some more to form more opinions /wec :) |
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Merman
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 140 |
Sadly, the glitching happens on a real 64C as well.
But...
I really like this. The difficulty is about right, the atmosphere is excellent, and the in-game music is a stunning feature. There are one or two problems, but then those same problems (enemies stuck in walls, power-ups scrolling off screen) happened in the first two Turrican games.
Read an EXCLUSIVE "first look" at Turrican 3 in issue 12 of Scene World, out 31st August. |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
those graphic glitches do not happen in the later worlds/levels. just the first ones are based on old code, that's what AEG said.
I find T3 absolutely stunning! Especially the tune "Viruz" from Jeff in 1-2! I listened to that one 2 1/2 hours without getting mad :P
Retorn of Darkness demo is, by the way, the story telling/inofficial intro of T3......... |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
Later levels have lockup bug on death (sometimes) instead of graphics glitches. I hugely respect everything up to level 3-3, then it goes downhill.. |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
I wonder why that one wasn't included as intro sequence to T3...
And yes, the game definitely is a hit! Nevertheless, the glitches and bugs are a little annoying:
- Being teleported into solid matter, not being able to move again and consecutively losing all lives due to time-out... argh.
- The music and the whole game in turn slows down considerably when using too much autofire and with a lot of sprites on screen.
- The collision detection is really flakey sometimes (bullets/enemies)
- Heavy flickering in the statusbar on the bottom of the screen
On the pro side I have to admit that the gameplay is awesome with just the right difficulty level (maybe even a little too easy, but better than depressingly hard). The musics (what I heard so far) are great too. The ability to save the game at certain checkpoints would be nice! ;-)
Please don't take this as ragging, AEG (if you should read this), I'm just trying to give some honest, constructive feedback.
Steppe (hoping for a bugfixed version to be released some day) |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
@Steppe. The "intro" wasn't included because: "It would have taken up too much space".
I couldn't really understand this reason really, so I really _do_ agree with you, that it should have been as the intro there. The "intro" has been coded within 2 days before Breakpoint.
Well, I do _hope_ some cracking group will release a GOLD EDITION with spelling error free intro (so return of darkness infront of t3) and with less graphic clitches/crashes.
Apart from that, I like the game very much!! :)
Thanks for this game, AEG! |
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_V_
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124 |
As a longtime Turrican nut, I have waited for this title with great anticipation, but I'm going to wait with a complete review until I've fully completed the game - I only had time to play it twice so far. I can safely say that the graphics and music are all up to par with the world of Turrican. In fact, when I first entered world 1-1, it felt like I was finally home =).
Unfortunately, it was a bit too much like home. I expected a new, of course Turrican-ish world, not a remix of Turrican 2. Luckily, world 2 *is* all-new, so it was quickly forgotten. I guess world 1 is a tribute to Turrican 1 and 2 (I especially liked the return of the giant fist), so it's no biggie.
What worries me more, however, is the gameplay. Jumping with Bren feels 'weird' to say the least, and when you do, the screen will scroll slightly up. "Is that a problem?", I hear you ask, and I have to say, "Umm yeah". Because when you scroll up, you run the risk of triggering some monsters. They appear 'out of the blue', just like that. And usually you just jump right into one of the fresh monsters, costing you energy.
Something like that makes exploration a chore, because you have to jump up very, very carefully to be sure that the monsters don't suddenly appear straight into Turrican. Furthermore, if you would then jump down and move back to where the monster was, he will have disappeared... the monster doesn't follow you, it doesn't stay where it was, it just vanishes into thin air. Weird. Some monster types stay, but most of them vanish.
Then, the bosses. Yes, they're big, bad and fast. But they are all surprisingly easy to beat (at least up to level 3-3). In every case, I can simply position Bren somewhere safe, activate the surround laser (or keep blasting) and wait until the boss has killed itself. Since the clock stops during the boss fights, all I have to do is keep the buttons pressed and wait. Admittedly, some Turrican baddies suffer from the same problem, but I kinda hoped that some real fighting would exist. Oh well.
Okay, these are my first thoughts. I will finish the entire game, I will explore every nook and cranny for a proper review, but I must say that the gameplay is less than in the other Turricans. Impression so far: **** (out of 5).
I wanted to give *** at first, but my massive respect for the job done by AEG, as well as the sound krew (and yes, I do prefer good music over sparse sound fx =) cannot be ignored. Thumbs up for an amazing looker and hearer so far, guys, way, way, up they go! And I'd like to share the same sentiment as Steppe, this is not ragging, just preliminary feedback about gameplay points which struck me as odd/bad while I played. Luckily, I haven't materialised into solid background so far. |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
well, I have just played it once more.
The Steppe method (autofire on) is horrible at 1-2, it flickers horrible.
In 2-2 I get 1 x UP and suddenly I get 1 x more Up and don't see from where? Suddenly I just have one live more.
What Steppe says with stucking in wall _nearly_ happened to me in 2-2 but only nearly (!) O:)
2-3 seem to be a nice remix of a Turrican III Amiga tune? not that I have seen the amiga version ,but somewhere I have some mp3 remix here...
In 2-3, the cut sequence is very nice and funny and the Katakis like shoot'em up levels are dreamful, why didn't in past the background graphics of shoot 'em uppers look that great?! Hmm, looks like ifli 64 color mode and gives a nice 3D effect. I lost live at 3-2 and found a bug in the highscore table , after I have entered "Nafcom" it looked like somebody messed up the screen, all over colorful corsors.
So far... |
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Exile
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 56 |
hhmmm, have to tell you, but the intro is on disk side 3, but nobody knows how to start it? Got this from our very own galaktus which tested the game for AEG.
So better ask AEG hoe to start the damn thing. And got to the website and email him to get manfred working on the official katakis 2!
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
Quote: hhmmm, have to tell you, but the intro is on disk side 3, but nobody knows how to start it? Got this from our very own galaktus which tested the game for AEG.
So better ask AEG hoe to start the damn thing. And got to the website and email him to get manfred working on the official katakis 2!
I have just asked AEG wether Return of Darkness is on side 3:
Let's quote him:
"No, that's nonsense, and we don't know who made this rumour up, but it doesn't come from us. On side three is level 5-1, 5-2 und and the end (level 5-3)." |
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gALAKTUS
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5 |
Ok, I guess there was some kind of missunderstanding on Willow about the intro on the 3rd disk side of Turrican III release. Sorry About that! But hey you are free to download the "Return of Darkness" intro/demo from Breakpoint and enjoy it!
@All people which are bitching around the bugs in Turrican III, I can only say, what a lame behaviour! Nobody said that Turrican III is perfect, but realize that it took 7 years of hard work to do it. Also realize that AEG was not payed for it, so the only motivation was to present a good game to you (please keep that in mind, next time you start argumenting). |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
Quote: Ok, I guess there was some kind of missunderstanding on Willow about the intro on the 3rd disk side of Turrican III release. Sorry About that! But hey you are free to download the "Return of Darkness" intro/demo from Breakpoint and enjoy it!
@All people which are bitching around the bugs in Turrican III, I can only say, what a lame behaviour! Nobody said that Turrican III is perfect, but realize that it took 7 years of hard work to do it. Also realize that AEG was not payed for it, so the only motivation was to present a good game to you (please keep that in mind, next time you start argumenting).
100% Agree!
Right, I am not bitching, I hope O:-)
And yes, I have loaded "Return of Darkness" seperately myself, too! Not a big problem. Still it would be nice if it was infrtont. Don't get us wrong
Ah and @G-Fellow: regarding your Turrican III prod comment: The game is done. I guess the rest will have to be done by some crackers.
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Is it an excuse for bugs and spelling errors that a game has taken seven years to make? I don't think so. I can't see why it's "bitching" to criticize any production, no matter who has done it, if they were paid for it or how long it took to make it. |
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gALAKTUS
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5 |
Quote: Is it an excuse for bugs and spelling errors that a game has taken seven years to make? I don't think so. I can't see why it's "bitching" to criticize any production, no matter who has done it, if they were paid for it or how long it took to make it.
Well maybe it wasn't meant as "bitching", but when you spend so much time in such a project. And you only hear nagative things about it, you feel pissed. If you would say hey nice that you spend 7 years in a game thanks for that, hey found some bug! That won't be bitching. Please think about that. |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
QUOTE:
"If you would say hey nice that you spend 7 years in a game thanks for that, hey found some bug! That won't be bitching. Please think about that."
===================
I think that is what we are here doing....?...
We appreciate his work and time he invested
Nobdoy said it like: "Baaaaad game, all lame, grrrrr!" |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Quote: Well maybe it wasn't meant as "bitching", but when you spend so much time in such a project. And you only hear nagative things about it, you feel pissed. If you would say hey nice that you spend 7 years in a game thanks for that, hey found some bug! That won't be bitching. Please think about that.
Most comments I have seen so far has actually been positive, so I don't think that AEG and the others have only heard negative things.
My only comment so far is "seems a bit unfinished" which was my first impression after testing it for a few minutes, and experiencing both spelling errors and bugs, and not really seeing anything that looked like an improvement compared to T1&2.
I don't really like playing games a lot, but when there's a +47 trained version I'll prolly take a look at the other levels, and see if I get more impressed, and maybe write another comment. |
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G-Fellow
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 103 |
A good diskussion about the game T3. I think the game T3 IS a winner, with bugs or not. It gives the scene some more motivation as anyway existing in the scene. And yes i want to play also a 100% bug free version and i think we get one.
We can maybe share some ideas to make the T3 "pervect", and that could maybe help to fix it, whoever it will do...
@Nafcom: We will see who fix it, the important thing is that it get be fixed! |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
Totally agree with Cruzer. Just to make it clear, I still get extremely pumped from playing the first 3 worlds and I rated the game '9' for overall effort, *but* at the same time I'm very curious of the motivation of leaving such obvious bugs like the Commando-style flicker in the game. Maybe because the source will be released (stated in the endtext) so we can fix it ourselves :)
IMO there must be honest comments and dialogue about releases, without it immediately labelled as bitching, friendlyscene benefits no-one in the end. |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
Cruzer is right, yes.
So we all agree and hope that the bugs/flickers get removed.
well Laxity did a nice job on Crush who had similar problems.
I am sure somebody is fixing also Turrican III. I guess there are the cracking groups and so there is sure one who licks their fingers to release a 100% version? :)
I guess everybody here in that thread said all stuff which is true. I really cannot disagree to 100% with any statement here. But nobody bitches it or wants to flush all down the toilet! |
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fg11
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 6 |
Well, I loved the game, even though I came across a few bugs myself.
Just wanted to comment that though I have reported some of the bugs, personally it wasn't intended as bitching but just "bug reporting" incase its any use to anyone who may fix the bugs (Maybe even AEG himself, who knows).
Even if the game is left as it is, i'm really happy to see it after all this time, and am still enjoying it now. It's thanks to the likes of Smash Designs, Lasse, Protovision etc that we still get to see some high quality games releases, and T3 is certainly that.
And the news on Katakis 2 sounds unbelieveable.. :)
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_V_
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124 |
I haven't seen a lot of bitching on this thread. If we were bitching about this game, we would have said completely different things. We have the respect for the 7 years, and AEG's commitment. But I agree with Cruzer as well and I stand by the things I have remarked. It's not a lot of fun when you jump into an area which is empty, only to see 6+ monsters pop up out of nowhere (and damaging you in the process)! Note that personally, I'm not looking at the other bugs, even (slowdown, illegal characters, disappearing sprites, ...). Only the gameplay matters for the time being.
Also, in the subsequent 3 games I played, I have been teleported into the background twice. However, you can get out by moving to the right. Turrican will slide through the background until you can move freely again. At least, that's how I managed to get out - on both counts.
I do like the learning curve, however. The first world is easy - enough to get you into the controls, the second is a bit harder (suddenly, the time limit becomes important), and the third world requires a combination of reflexes and knowledge about the aliens. You do have to learn the attack pattern of the bosses in 3-2, and the confrontation in 3-3 is rock hard. Can't wait to dig into world 4 =). |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
ok, I have found in 2-2 the way how to get stuck _into_ the wall. Fall down and let you destroy while you do. Your new hero gets positionated directly into the wall, then time is up and you get positionated 3 mm lefter from it, *sigh*
At least I have used that "lost" game to rip Jeff's masterpiece out of memory :P
Ah and 1-1 features 6 (!) UPs. I have entered 1-2 with 9 lives, that rocks :D
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The Guardian
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 1 |
Quote: Ok, I guess there was some kind of missunderstanding on Willow about the intro on the 3rd disk side of Turrican III release. Sorry About that! But hey you are free to download the "Return of Darkness" intro/demo from Breakpoint and enjoy it!
@All people which are bitching around the bugs in Turrican III, I can only say, what a lame behaviour! Nobody said that Turrican III is perfect, but realize that it took 7 years of hard work to do it. Also realize that AEG was not payed for it, so the only motivation was to present a good game to you (please keep that in mind, next time you start argumenting).
[SPOILERS AHEAD -- READ FURTHER AT OWN RISK]
perhaps it would help you guys to actually play the whole game through and especially read! the endscreen upscroller. that should clear up a few things from AEG's side, like his awareness of bugs, sources to be released, etc.
if you do not have the patience or skill to play the game fully through to the end, you may aswell just 'cheat' a bit, and jump directly to world/level 5-1.
here's how:
- insert disk one.
- start computer.
- load game up as usual.
- from intro, start a game.
- lose all lives and get game-over message.
- do not continue when asked so (you will return to intro).
- insert disk three.
- start a game again.
- you're now in world/level 5-1 (with correct graphics).
- complete world 5.
- read scroller.
you can not run from the fact that the bugs and the more-often-than-not occasional flickering overshadows this otherwise excellent game. Turrican3 is simply missing that last 5% effort that would have made all the difference in the world. it's not about development time, or that it is 'free' game. (missing) Quality-Assurance comes to my mind.
a buggy game is, after all, and quite simply, a buggy game. period.
then again, perhaps that's just my opinion and me being totally wrong/ignorant, since Im merely seeing and saying things from an endusers point of view.
finally, and according to AEG, it is not likely he'll be touching the game ever again. so your only prayer might aswell just be that somebody might have enough luck to be able to pick up on the sources once they are released, and compile a bugfixed version. or simply rewrite the (bugged) levels to comply with c64 hardware capabilities; you cant really show more than 8 sprites per rasterline, atleast not easily. ;)
and ah yes, the quote at the beginning was included as this post is also in response to one of gALAKTUS' earlier posts in this thread. |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
Ah, I found a nice bug/way in 2-2 with level boss destroying.
Stand on the very left, get destroyed, then you are kind of invisible hit space for firewall twice (I had 0 in the status bar but it worked anyway) and then the two firewalls keep stuck on the left side of the screen, move left, duck and enjoy how the boss get destroyed when he moves left and touches the 2 firewalls on the screen :)
In 3-2 the whole screen shakes heavily if there are too much sprites, not only the status bar.
And the motto in 3-3 is "may the graphic bug scroll with us".
Weeee, 3-3 is very fast and very heavy!!! But nice :) |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
When i posted up a few comments with regards to Turrican 3, i didn't want it to turn into a whole *let's spot how many bugs type thing* - as i am more interested in the levels (graphics) and the big bosses etc :) |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
Quote: When i posted up a few comments with regards to Turrican 3, i didn't want it to turn into a whole *let's spot how many bugs type thing* - as i am more interested in the levels (graphics) and the big bosses etc :)
so sorry, then :-/ O:-) |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
It is amazing what Aeg has achieved. I've played the game some more, level 2 looks really very nice, and the music reminds me of the Last Ninja for some reason.
I had this idea, imagine a Turrican 4, with each level created by a different scene artist, that would be interesting :) |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
wile coyote wrote:
"I had this idea, imagine a Turrican 4, with each level created by a different scene artist, that would be interesting :)"
the problem would be the character graphics: as aeg told me and i also experienced similar things, most people are not able to handle character set graphics. they are unable to produce graphics which doesn't look like normal 4 color charset gfx, and they also have great problems in having only 256 different chars but yet make the graphics not look like patterns repeating. |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
Graham wrote:
"the problem would be the character graphics: as aeg told me and i also experienced similar things, most people are not able to handle character set graphics. they are unable to produce graphics which doesn't look like normal 4 color charset gfx, and they also have great problems in having only 256 different chars but yet make the graphics not look like patterns repeating."
Well, they could take a look at Turrican, Turrican 2 and have ago. With a bit of thought and imagination anything is possible. Also, with the thought of only having to create 1 level, they could give it there all and squeeze every last pixel to the max ;) |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
that's exactly what aeg did. in the end he had to draw the graphics himself because all graphics he got looked 4-color and had patterns repeating all over. believe me, it's quite hard to draw such graphics and make them look nice and colorful + you also need some technical understanding of the character mode. |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
How technical can it be? Each char can be multicolor or monochrome. If it's multicolor you can use three fixed colors plus a flexible color/char that can be #0-7, and in monochrome there's only one fixed color plus a flexible 0-7 color, and ofcourse double resolution. That's pretty much it, isn't it?
But I agree, it IS pretty tricky to make nice char gfx. |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
Character mode, isn't that 1 background color (fixed), 2 fixed colors and the 4th color can be changed on every character although can only use the first 8 colors out of the possible 16 (ie: black, white, red, green, cyan, blue, yellow and magenta) 256 characters (i am guessing the water is a scroll effect used on a single character while the water surface is an animation (were the animation frames in with the 256 or maybe pulled in from else where?)
Did Aeg use a combined character editor + map eidtor?
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
I guess the best thing (but also hardest) is to have somekind of an architectural vision, like AEG or Manfred did, as opposed to doing just some "game graphics" on request. So it's still easier to do all yourself, unless ideas are communicated via some sort of sketches or art bible.. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
@Cruzer: read your post again and you'll notice it IS pretty complicated. you needed a lot of words to explain it :)
ofcourse, you as programmer know it by the heart, but graphicians don't. and to do anything decent with it, you need to know it by the heart + have some extra talent. |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
I think this game is one of the best platformers ever made. I just wish you could pause+save the game anytime, because it's quite hard to play to end in one go.
The gfx is pretty good, I wonder how this is organized.. haven't really looked yet. The Return of Darkness intro stands for me as one of the best gfx demos ever made also.
The music is awesome! I don't even notice it's only 3 channels. KB, Jeff and Sonic really kick ass!
I met a few bugs, but I just wrecked my joystick and then it went ok again. I think these things should be easy to fix.
My deepest respects to all who made this game come to life, and especially to AEG, great work!!!!!
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_V_
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124 |
Of course, charset gfx require quite a bit of skill - I am aware of the technical limitations. But, I do think many graphicians in the past managed to do just fine (Just think of any scrolling action game with nice graphics - my personal favourite is Mayhem in Monsterland).
It also depends a bit on the flexibility of the coding involved - if you can create screen elements of variable character size (and not the horrible 5x5 char blocks in SEUCK) and have a good feeling about which type of element is important and which isn't, you _can_ expect some imaginative worlds, even from a graphician.
Sorry, just had to make a modest stand against all the coding power present here ;).
I also think WEC can do some pretty good backdrops if he puts his spirit behind it. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
@_V_:
sorry but i have to disagree. there might be some good games but most of them either have plain 4 color charset gfx, and those who also use that extra color look like 4 colors + some other color here and there. mayhem in monsterland is one exception, and even there many levels look like typical 4 colors + some extra ones here and there. |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
I think it's a nice trick how AEG often uses colors $9 and $c on one side of some metallic evil structure and $6 (being the char color) and $c of other, fooled me many times thinking that the game is running in bitmapmode :) |
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_V_
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124 |
@Graham: Well, umm, yeah, in the end, when you properly analyse them, they all look like 4colours + additional colours, even the Turrican+Katakis titles (since they usually *are* 4colours + additional highlights here and there). The trick is to use it to full effect, and there, there are quite a few games which succeed. Not just Mayhem, of course (indeed, the unhappy b/w worlds look as you say, which is logical, but the happy coloured worlds are another matter), we can add the other Apex brothers games as well, and I'd say Flimbo's Quest was quite nice, as was Genloc or Another World, Stormlord (although these last games use other techniques and are limited to sideways scrolling, but still, these worlds have to be built from smaller blocks), ...
Besides, the amount of colour trickery is not that important if the charset pixelling is done correctly and to the point, what is important is building beautiful structures out of a minimum of characters. Case in point: Armalyte, Hawkeye, Midnight Resistance, Rubicon, ... |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
If you take a look at Metroid that is where much of the inspiration for Turrican came from. The style is at times a mixture of different styled blocks that when put together create a great look. In Turrican there is a lot of use of either a Red, Blue or Purple hires 4 character parallax scroll layer. The other trick seems to use 2 of the 16 colors that cannot be used on the 4th changable color (middle grey and brown seems quite a common combo). |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
Quote: [SPOILERS AHEAD -- READ FURTHER AT OWN RISK]
perhaps it would help you guys to actually play the whole game through and especially read! the endscreen upscroller. that should clear up a few things from AEG's side, like his awareness of bugs, sources to be released, etc.
if you do not have the patience or skill to play the game fully through to the end, you may aswell just 'cheat' a bit, and jump directly to world/level 5-1.
here's how:
- insert disk one.
- start computer.
- load game up as usual.
- from intro, start a game.
- lose all lives and get game-over message.
- do not continue when asked so (you will return to intro).
- insert disk three.
- start a game again.
- you're now in world/level 5-1 (with correct graphics).
- complete world 5.
- read scroller.
you can not run from the fact that the bugs and the more-often-than-not occasional flickering overshadows this otherwise excellent game. Turrican3 is simply missing that last 5% effort that would have made all the difference in the world. it's not about development time, or that it is 'free' game. (missing) Quality-Assurance comes to my mind.
a buggy game is, after all, and quite simply, a buggy game. period.
then again, perhaps that's just my opinion and me being totally wrong/ignorant, since Im merely seeing and saying things from an endusers point of view.
finally, and according to AEG, it is not likely he'll be touching the game ever again. so your only prayer might aswell just be that somebody might have enough luck to be able to pick up on the sources once they are released, and compile a bugfixed version. or simply rewrite the (bugged) levels to comply with c64 hardware capabilities; you cant really show more than 8 sprites per rasterline, atleast not easily. ;)
and ah yes, the quote at the beginning was included as this post is also in response to one of gALAKTUS' earlier posts in this thread.
That cheating does _not_ work for me here, I have exactly done what you have said.
insert disk three.
- start a game again.
^^^^^^ At this point it doesn't load from disk three then, just nothing and I can reset my C64.... |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
Quote: That cheating does _not_ work for me here, I have exactly done what you have said.
insert disk three.
- start a game again.
^^^^^^ At this point it doesn't load from disk three then, just nothing and I can reset my C64....
The Guardian and me found out, this cheat doesn't work on a real C64 with real disks, but it works out in VICE. |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
I email Aeg with the idea of a Turrican featuring levels created by different scene artists. He said it would be too much work. Anyway, here's a link to a Turrican mock up. It's about 10% Turrican 50% Metroid inspiration and 40% wec http://www.truecolor.741.com/TURRICAN/index.htm
I think it just about captures that console look in much the same way the original Turrican did. The hires section is the parallex layer (...and ripped from Turrican II). |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
Quote: I email Aeg with the idea of a Turrican featuring levels created by different scene artists. He said it would be too much work. Anyway, here's a link to a Turrican mock up. It's about 10% Turrican 50% Metroid inspiration and 40% wec http://www.truecolor.741.com/TURRICAN/index.htm
I think it just about captures that console look in much the same way the original Turrican did. The hires section is the parallex layer (...and ripped from Turrican II).
Hey, that looks very surprising! Will you do the graphics for Turrican 4 then? :) Please say yes :)
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
I would be happy to work on 1 or 2 levels :) |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
Quote: I would be happy to work on 1 or 2 levels :)
ok :)
any freelancer as coder? Cadaver? :) |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
Quote: The Guardian and me found out, this cheat doesn't work on a real C64 with real disks, but it works out in VICE.
well, just asked AEG and that wasn't on purpose even, he said that works on any c64/emu because the levels have he same loading address and the disk management is the same on all disksides.
Seems like I have re-tranfer diskside 3 again... |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
I'm morally opposed to the tricks required to make a Turrican-game fast enough, so you'd need someone else :)
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
Quote: I'm morally opposed to the tricks required to make a Turrican-game fast enough, so you'd need someone else :)
Slow Turrican is better than no Turrican (4) ;) |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Quote: I'm morally opposed to the tricks required to make a Turrican-game fast enough, so you'd need someone else :)
There's no such thing as being "morally opposed to tricks" on a c64! |
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_V_
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124 |
I might be inclined to provide a charset and building blocks for a world as well. |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
wile coyote 2, _V_ 1, that would be, 3 levels, enough for a small Turrican IV. Nevernethless, better to have graphics for a level 4 and 5.. and coder needed and suddenly we have a Turrican IV, muhahahaha :D |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
Or maybe in another 7 years? ;) |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
Quote: Or maybe in another 7 years? ;)
depends on, how fast everybody is?... |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
I had other ideas. The original Turrican was probably held back in places, as it probably needed to work from Tape as well as Disk. These days, Tape is history. If Turrican was to be Disk only it could open up a few extra options.
I had the idea of a Turrican with just 5 levels. Although it would be possible to run between all 5 levels. The idea would be like Metroid, in that only ceratain areas of a level could be accessed (once opened up).
The start of the game would take place on the surface of the new world (no music, just sound fx here :) And in true Metroid style, the first weapon to find would be the option to roll into a ball (thus allowing the player to squeeze through small gaps).
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_V_
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124 |
I think I know where you're going, WEC. I have played a couple of Metroids (on the GBA and GameCube), and the concept of running around worlds, discovering new areas after acquiring certain upgrades for Turrican sounds like a great concept. And as the exploration increases, the story of the world unfolds (if there's memory - unlikely, but one can try ;).
So, the project would be Turrican's world with strong Metroid influences. Could be a winner. Hmm, we could even arrange an encounter between Samus and Bren, let them hook up ;). |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
I think it could work. 5 levels, 5 loads. There just needs to be a small file on the disk that is read and writtne to. This file would simply contain information such as what has/what has not been picked up (roll into a ball power up for example) and what doors/rocks have been opened/blown down :)
So on the one hand 5 levels makes the game smaller. On the other hand the game beomes bigger as the player has to run back though old levels to discover un_discovered areas :) - This would take Turrican in a new better direction :D |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
Hey T3 source released & sids & unused graphics. Hopefully some cracks with some fixes soon?
And Wec & _V_: Nice ideas, and who does the code? ... |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
Hmm.. from some investigations of the T3 sources, the gamecode seems quite weird. It's busywaiting in the mainprogram to do the scorescreen split, instead of using a raster interrupt, so no wonder if it flickers like hell when it runs out of r-time :)
Still respect to AEG for releasing the sources. |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 896 |
/me patiently awaits cadaver's version of tur3 ;)
i took a quick peep too, and i don't think it would be an enormous undertaking to improve the multiplexers a bit.. but i doubt it will be possible to get rid of all the flickering without recoding large parts. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
i don't think the flickering is the no.1 problem in T3... i encountered a lot of "player gets stuck in collision" during playing, far more annoying. also the flickering could be limited with limiting the spawn speed of new bullets. maybe even add software autofire? |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
Well.. I'm not gonna touch that :) And agreed with Graham, flickering is something you got used to from some classics, the real gamekilling bugs on the other hand are probably buried quite deep in the code.. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
it would be easyer to write a new engine from scratch, than to debug aeg's code. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
nah, i guess it isnt that hard to fix some nasty bugs. most of em have to do with the death of the player. very often the player is placed inside some walls or outside the screen, and i also encountered another bug: if you die while a boss is dying, the game will not continue... if you're lucky you stay with a white background and can atleast run to the exit, but no enemies appear anywhere. |
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_V_
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124 |
In my case, the background was orange. Yeah, I experienced that bug firsthand. The most annoying of the lot is in 5-1, though. Die while scrolling up, and the game freezes. Bwerk. |
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Nafcom
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588 |
Maybe we can continue wile coyote's discussion, since Version 1.1 has found its birth to the public :)
the version info txt reads:
Turrican 3 - C64
--------------------------
Developed by Smash-Designs
Bugfix Version 1.1 15.09.2004 / AEG/SDS
----------------------------------------
fixed Bugs:
CheatBug removed (Load Level 5-1 from the intro):
-It was possible to load the intro and insert disk
side 3. After pressing fire, LEvel 5-1 was loaded
but with corrupted sprite grafix.
if level 1-1 has been played before trying this
cheat, all grafix have been correct and level 5-1
was fully playable.
This function was never meantioned to work, so
this has been removed now.
World 4 (level 4-1, Level 4-2):
-Enemy Sprite Objects positioning errors removed
(some inits were missing).
-Powerline & Spritemovement fixed
(when powerlines were started while the scrolling was
active, the screen stopped correctly, but the sprites
continued x-movement).
-Several Scoreadds were missing
-Sprite Wrappings (Some objects were not switched off correctly
when they left the screen and they wrapped around).
Optimization:
-------------
World 4 (level 4-1, Level 4-2):
-Mutliplexsystem speed optimized (Should save some
expensive rastertime and run the gameplay should
run a bit more stable)
Game Play:
----------
World 4 (level 4-1, Level 4-2):
-Bonus Blocks giving more extras
-Shotinvervals of several guns changed. |
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Richard
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 621 |
When I played through Turrican 3 V1.0 I noticed that there was a whole lot of trouble with Level 4-1 & Level 4-2. It's good to hear that Smash Designs have fixed these bugs. Despite those bugs, I thought Turrican 3 was a brilliant game. I'll update the Turrican 3 game to my disks. |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
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Booze
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 28 |
Did anyone ever NTSC-fix Turrican 1? I'd heard NEI ran it on a C128 but it was such a bitch to fix! You could remove the entire screen scroller and STILL run out of stack space...
Fungus, did you try that one?
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MacGyver
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 149 |
A review of Turrican 3 C64 is now available at http://www.c64.sk |
