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PAL
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 271 |
Vice sux these days...
....I am just a lamer so bear with me... music halts, no real frame-rate - full 50 halts now, set settings resetting to no true drive.... a big chunky graphics overlay when looking at demos in full-screen... WHY IS VICE EMULATOR SUDDENLY SHITTY TO THE POINT ONE DO NOT WANT TO USE IT ANY MORE?
It was so stable and perfect before last update... what went wrong? There are so many issues now... all things bugs in all demos and playback...
Will there be a fix it all for people like me that just happen to have a greatest ASUS laptop where everything used to work but now are just total lame in every aspect and can not get it to play right, I ask because last version worked like a charm... So utterly lame update to the latest version.
Maybe it is just me... wait, our coders and everyone have same bugs... such a terrible update... if there are some special setting to be set why do not make them the same as last version? that worked all the time with all demos? |
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2925 |
<Post edited by Moloch on 23/1-2018 10:23>
no edit ^ |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
I esp love the scrolling settings menu. should be teached at how not to design GUI seminars. |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 945 |
I've had issues with Vice too, but only after the Windows 10 Creators update. :/ |
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oziphantom
Registered: Oct 2014
Posts: 490 |
If Win 10 version.
ENABLE THE RENDER TO DX PRIMARY SURFACE option in Video Settings, AND SAVE SETTINGS ;)
it magically fixes it... it is back to tip-top form..
Linux version... it's as good as all the rest of the OS XD |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
"these days"? It sucked as long as I know about it.
But I was thinking, and you know what... Even beside its suckiness, it is still the best emulator for C64, and it's free - so we should be thankful for it.
Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. |
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Dano
Registered: Jul 2004
Posts: 231 |
As for my own thread some time ago i learnt i was about the only one (^^) who had performance issues on his ultrabook/latop. though a intel driver change did make it better i am still having issues with a proper 50fps playback of things. esspecially when there's action on the screen.
at work on my powerhouse it's better atleast.
i will try that dx primary surface thing. though i don't have any visual artifacts or anything on my systems.
from doomed via compyx i learned that the normal x64 is not supported anymore, as it does not emulate filters anymore. so one has to use x64sc for a proper playback. which is even more performance hungry.
as for the music-sid-filter playback thing on the current versions some musicians still seem to have issues..
as for the menu following the rss feed from the repo they are working on a GTK overhauled menu system.
and ofcourse it's always windows' fault when things not work properly on vice.. |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
Also on MacOS High Sierra alot of applicaitons suddenly gets jerky motion, including Vice and my own apps that previously where perfectly frame synced. I wonder what the hell Apple did to fuck up the system to that point... :( |
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Bob
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 71 |
could it be Meltdown or Spectre issues that every OS tries to patch up, and the performance hit is like 30% ??? |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
Quote: could it be Meltdown or Spectre issues that every OS tries to patch up, and the performance hit is like 30% ???
If it requires a round-trip to kernel-space just to sync frames then OS-makers have done something terribly wrong imo. |
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algorithm
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 705 |
I have tried Vice on various hardware and devices and some info, temporary fixes as below..
If using Vice on windows 10 (and you have creators update or higher), you can fix the full screen issue by right clicking on vice (x64sc) and disabling "full screen optimisations" in the compatibility tab. This should then allow full screen to work.
If encountering stuttering or performance issues, Having the performance set to "high performance" in windows can help on some devices. I think the fluctuation in performance dips (if you have a strong cpu) may be due to the cpu lowering down and not having enough time to rise up to high cpu loads within the emulator causing the stutters. One some devices, using the "use cpu on first core" in vice also may help.
Windows/Spectre fixes should not affect performance too much for vice in particular if you have not applied any available bios patch. You are looking at an approximate figure of 5% maximum or so. Maybe more in Windows 7. The 30% figure is the worst case scenario and usually applies to high IO usage and switching.
If the audio sounds "off" on newer builds, adjust the filter bias until it sounds better to you. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11357 |
Quote:from doomed via compyx i learned that the normal x64 is not supported anymore, as it does not emulate filters anymore.
oh jesus. please. x64 is no more supported because it is the old, outdated, not cycle exact emulator. it has NOTHING to do with filters or anything SID.
i love this kind of threads though. random people rant about random things, failing to pinpoint the problem, making random assumptions about the cause, pointing fingers, suggesting cargocult cures.
keep it coming. |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2219 |
Quote:... random people rant about random things..., making random assumptions ...
ROFL |
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Claus_2015
Registered: Oct 2012
Posts: 53 |
Quoting Groepaz
Quote:suggesting cargocult cures.
*creates a SCPU of putty and sticks it to his Notebook to speedup Vice* |
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Dano
Registered: Jul 2004
Posts: 231 |
Quote: Quote:from doomed via compyx i learned that the normal x64 is not supported anymore, as it does not emulate filters anymore.
oh jesus. please. x64 is no more supported because it is the old, outdated, not cycle exact emulator. it has NOTHING to do with filters or anything SID.
i love this kind of threads though. random people rant about random things, failing to pinpoint the problem, making random assumptions about the cause, pointing fingers, suggesting cargocult cures.
keep it coming.
good that problems don't exist and we are just morons using windows. that does sum up you pretty well, eh?
and things that once worked and now don't are either just moron people's problems using moron hardware and should just shut up.
right? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11357 |
yes, you got it.
and all the VICE team does all day is smoke weed and pour drinks while thinking about new ways on how to make winvice as miserable as possible. we even keep close contact with microsoft to make sure their updates dont accidently fix something that we broke. |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3187 |
Jim knew it already in 1985, it's all groepaz's fault. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
hahaha :) frankly, I have no problems with it, except that god damned menu :) please make it friendly next time, good people :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11357 |
ian: no he didnt know it. he made it so |
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PAL
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 271 |
I see your point Groepaz, sorry for my rude post. I also think it is correct that most of these issues are due to Windows10.... So again, sorry for this thread, I was a ass, please just delete it if that is possible?
Very grateful for all the massive work you guys are putting into the emulator. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quote: hahaha :) frankly, I have no problems with it, except that god damned menu :) please make it friendly next time, good people :)
I have no clue what are you talking about, Oswald. The menu looks completely fine to me.
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11357 |
 |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
looks like you cheated, your desktop is taller than wider. :) my max res is 1366x768, which can not host that menu without scrolling it.
that treeview mode looks cool, is that the linux version ? would like to have something like that for win. |
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Mr.Ammo
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 228 |
Quoting JackAsserAlso on MacOS High Sierra alot of applicaitons suddenly gets jerky motion, including Vice and my own apps that previously where perfectly frame synced. I wonder what the hell Apple did to fuck up the system to that point... :(
The vanilla versions of vice3.1 SDL and COCOA work just fine on my mac mini 2011 with macos high sierra. I can even run two windows next to eachother without any glitches or jerky motion.
Make sure you throw out all of your old settings. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11357 |
oswald: its the GTK3 version running on windows 7 |
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Tim
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467 |
hmm,
I have several other versions (testing and such for other groupmembers) on my machines..
That said, Vice 2.4 on windows 7 (w32) is still my absolute and undisputed favorite. |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Had a few days recently where everything slowed down on Linux, then got almost back to normal. I Also suspect Meltdown/Spectre patches. I hope it's that, and not an attack. :) |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2969 |
Quoting Oswaldis that the linux version ? would like to have something like that for win. Who in their right mind would want a Linux desktop looking like Windows, and then the fugly classic look? :D |
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Zirias
Registered: Jan 2014
Posts: 48 |
I have a strange problem with VICE 3.1 on Win10 only, works as I expect on Linux -- as my real hw is disabled atm, I have no real reference ...
Working on some code doing Raster-IRQ stuff with BASIC running, and CIA IRQ disabled so it doesn't mess with the timing (instead, one VIC IRQ per frame is dispatched to EA31). This crashed after breaking from a LOAD command and I found out the Kernal re-enables CIA IRQs in this case. To solve this, I start every ISR with a JSR to this code:
checkirq:
lda $d019
bpl resetcia
and #$f
sta $d019
rts
resetcia: lda #$7f
sta $dc0d
pla
pla
jmp $ea7e so a IRQ that doesn't come from the VIC directly re-disables the CIA IRQ and exits. When I try this in VICE 3.1 on Win10, after this routine, no IRQs are triggered any more although there were no writes to D01A and the vectors are intact :o (while it's fine with the same VICE version on linux) -- my fault or a bug in VICE?
If needed, I can create and share a small PRG that exhibits this behavior. |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
Quote: Quoting JackAsserAlso on MacOS High Sierra alot of applicaitons suddenly gets jerky motion, including Vice and my own apps that previously where perfectly frame synced. I wonder what the hell Apple did to fuck up the system to that point... :(
The vanilla versions of vice3.1 SDL and COCOA work just fine on my mac mini 2011 with macos high sierra. I can even run two windows next to eachother without any glitches or jerky motion.
Make sure you throw out all of your old settings.
I'll try that, thanks! |
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Zirias
Registered: Jan 2014
Posts: 48 |
Quoting ZiriasIf needed, I can create and share a small PRG that exhibits this behavior.
Trying to do this, the most simple code *doesn't* bug in VICE 3.1 on Win10 either, so it might be indeed a problem in my code, investigating this further. Still strange VICE behaves differently in the Linux version (in a 100% reproducible way)
Update: found the culprit. The kernal also potentially destroys RST8 for the IRQ condition here:
FC95 AD 11 D0 LDA $D011
FC98 09 10 ORA #$10
FC9A 8D 11 D0 STA $D011 I had all my IRQs in rasterlines with bit 8 cleared, so if this happens at a lower raster line, the machine freezes. Easily fixed now. I'm still wondering why this *always* happened on Win10 and *never* on Linux :o |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
Quote: Quoting Oswaldis that the linux version ? would like to have something like that for win. Who in their right mind would want a Linux desktop looking like Windows, and then the fugly classic look? :D
guess its me, I'm old fart, I like classic win look. fuck the shiny skins, not for me.
even on win10 now I have same very slight transp fuck going on. I thought the monitor broke and has miscolorization for a aminute :) |
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Compyx
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631 |
Quoting Oswaldlooks like you cheated, your desktop is taller than wider. :) my max res is 1366x768, which can not host that menu without scrolling it.
that treeview mode looks cool, is that the linux version ? would like to have something like that for win.
As groepaz mentioned, the screenshot with the settings treeview is on Windows, since we're working with Gtk3 to have a portable UI, the new UI should look the same on Windows, OSX, Linux and BSD.
Of course, it being Gtk3, it'll probably not look completely native on all systems, but at least you'll have an up-to-date and better UI than the unmaintained Windows/OSX-Cocoa UI's, or the Linux Gtk2 UI for that matter.
I'm designing the UI with a screen size of 1280x768 in mind, which sometimes makes for some 'interesting' design decisions/compromises. So far, when compiling the Windows version on my laptop (1366x768) in a Win7 VM, stuff fits. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11357 |
Quote:Who in their right mind would want a Linux desktop looking like Windows, and then the fugly classic look?
i use classic w2k-server look on all my machines, all my OSs, since 15 years or so. not planning to change that either. problem? :) |
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Compyx
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631 |
I still like how Gtk2 looked, so my Linux desktops use Mate, a Gtk3-based desktop that actually works, unlike Gnome Hell or Qt Plasma. And my Windows VM's use the W2K look.
Functionality over looks/fancy crap. |
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BiGFooT
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 33 |
Why no one mentioned the easter-eggs/hidden parts on Poopbirds screenshot?
After Slajerek C64 debugger got released I prefer Vice over CCS even if it's more resource hungry. Video lagging is depends on how many window is open in the background, how long ago the computer was restarted (hello AMD drivers and shaders!) and of course, recent patches. You should get used to it or write your own emulator. (https://preview.ibb.co/mrb9Tb/bigemu.png)
Anyway +1 on the "classic shell" looks, I get lost too on the modern start menu/metro screen... and don't trust the one uses Internet Explorer in most cases. |
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Compyx
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631 |
Quoting BiGFooTWhy no one mentioned the easter-eggs/hidden parts on Poopbirds screenshot?
Maybe because they were very obvious? Though I lol'ed a bit. |
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Tom-Cat
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 20 |
btw. with 3.x the winvice became unusable for me too... but the "Use only First CPU" option fixed everything here, it is back to smooth emulation 50 fps now. |
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Isildur
Registered: Sep 2006
Posts: 275 |
@Tom-Cat, thanks for pointing to this new option. Always stable 100% + 50fps here on win10x64 for the first time ;) |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quoting Tom-Cat"Use only First CPU"
Where can I find this option? |
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Tom-Cat
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 20 |
Quote: Quoting Tom-Cat"Use only First CPU"
Where can I find this option?
In the Settings menu... check your own screenshot up there, 20th selection from the top :) |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Ah, thanks :) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
stumbled on a weird bug.
if I start vice3.1 with sound playback off, alt+s crashes it. if sound is turned back on before alt+s its fine, and sound turned off again its fine again. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4723 |
Quote: @Tom-Cat, thanks for pointing to this new option. Always stable 100% + 50fps here on win10x64 for the first time ;)
Same here. Finally. |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
Detecting ISA HardSID boards.
Could not open '/dev/port'.
Cannot get permission to access $300.
Detecting PCI HardSID boards.
No PCI HardSID boards found.
HW scale not available, forcing to disabled
Reading configuration file `/home/simon/.vice/vicerc'.
HW scale not available, forcing to disabled
*** VICE Version 3.0 ***
OS compiled for: Linux glibc 2.24
GUI compiled for: GTK+
CPU compiled for: AMD64/x86_64
Compiler used: GCC-6.2.1
Current OS: Linux 4.13.0-35-generic (glibc 2.26)
Current CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7500U CPU @ 2.70GHz
Welcome to x64, the free portable C64 Emulator.
Current VICE team members:
Andreas Matthies, Martin Pottendorfer, Marco van den Heuvel, Fabrizio Gennari,
Groepaz, Marcus Sutton, Kajtar Zsolt, Stefan Haubenthal, BSzili, AreaScout,
Bas Wassink.
This is free software with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY.
See the "About VICE" command for more info.
X11: GTK version compiled with: 3.22 (xf86 ext:yes cairo:yes pango:yes VTE:yes hwscale:no fullscreen:yes ui-threads:no)
Segmentation fault (core dumped) |
