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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Graphic Charts
Heythere,
i was just looking at the current top gfx artist rankings here and i had the urge to just bitch about some of the best gfx artists on the c64 being ranked way to low.
Dont get me wrong, there are many talented people around today.
But artists of the caliber of a Paul Docherty or Bob Stevenson would mop the floor with the majority of the people in the top 10 in any of the various gfx subsections.
And by the way, wtf is it with full screen gfx artists and normal gfx artist i mean give me a break its all the same to me.
You may disagree, thats fine. Bite my shiny metal ass.
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
I disagree a bit about the first part but since it's a matter of personal taste, I'll stop right here. Charts on CSDb are a kind of fucked up anyway, you shouldn't take it for granted...
As for the "Fullscreen Graphicians"-chart, I asked just too many times to remove that totally pointless thing but noone responded till now. |
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
I disagree a bit as well, but just a bit. :-) I think the musician-chart is way more off than the gfxian ones.
(And of course the distinction between normal and fullscreen graphicians is stupid. What is fullscreen anyway?) |
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Deev
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 206 |
Looking at some of the people below them, I personally think Bob Stevenson and Paul Docherty are a little fortunate to be as high as they are! I'm not saying they weren't great at the time, but a lot of their work can look a little dated by today's standards. Obviously it's hard to compare directly as they never had the luxury of FLI or some fancy hires mode, but I'm sure I could pick out 10 people who, IMO, have done better work in plain old multicolour bitmaps than they did. You also have to remember that many of their most memorable pictures were nothing more than straight copies of game artwork.
I agree about the pointlessness of fullscreen graphician though. I never added it to my own profile for that very reason. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quoting DeevI agree about the pointlessness of fullscreen graphician though. I never added it to my own profile for that very reason. Yep, but people could still vote for roles you've never specified as your own. Another annoying usability malfunction that's being ignored for a pretty long time.
There was another topic where we have agreed that the fullscreen graphician function should be removed but nothing ever happened.
Related topics:
uppercase/lowercase mixup
Who's messing with my functions?
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Quote:I'm not saying they weren't great at the time, but a lot of their work can look a little dated by today's standards
The same could be said about many demos.
Obviously the rating system is undoubtedly imperfect, seeing that a hugh riley or paul docherty being able to score lower than f.ex. hydrogen.
I mean, come on.
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 946 |
I'm also old-fashioned and my favorite oldies are the ones doing pixels before the 90s. Especially the game graphic artists, who obviously didn't do copies, deserve a higher rank in the charts. I especially like Riley's ingame background graphics in many games, such as Predator or Bangkok Knights. Many other Euro-trash like Stevenson, Levy, Binn, Docherty did ingame gfx as well. Or how about US hero Sachs?
Anyway, no matter what ranking, I still enjoy looking at those old games. |
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The Phantom
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 360 |
I have to say that I also think full screen artistry is the same as anything else. In all seriousness, GRAPHICIAN covers it all, doesn't it?! |
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Skate
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 494 |
I agree that "fullscreen graphician" category doesn't make sense and should be removed. |
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fade
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 290 |
Just want to add that it's different drawing a great set of titties and doing lettering. |
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
Yeah, it's a never ending cold war: Do we vote a 10 for demos that were a 10 "back then" but look a little dated, or do we compare them to today's productions? Personally I go with the latter, just as I do with movies or music. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Yeah, it's a never ending cold war: Do we vote a 10 for demos that were a 10 "back then" but look a little dated, or do we compare them to today's productions? Personally I go with the latter, just as I do with movies or music.
The latter, ofcourse. The best demos are the ones that stood the test of time, so to speak.
As for the graphician thing: 'fullscreen' is a bit much but I think there's for example a difference between logo graphicians and those doing pretty pictures. Not everybody is able doing both equally well ..
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Laxity
Registered: Aug 2005
Posts: 459 |
Quote: Yeah, it's a never ending cold war: Do we vote a 10 for demos that were a 10 "back then" but look a little dated, or do we compare them to today's productions? Personally I go with the latter, just as I do with movies or music.
See, the great thing about is that we DON'T conform, otherwise the charts would reflect nothing. That makes sence too, since we don't judge by the same preferences anyway. Some people like techno, others (however few) like polka, some of the creative people are mainstreamers others aren't. The lovely dynamics of this place (and the real world too, I've been told.. never been there!)
I would however like if there'd be added a "fullscreen musician" category (that multi speed hokus pokus deserves a category of its own!). :) |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
The real world is overrated. I know: I've seen it on tv, on something called the 'Jerry Springer' show. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
oh yes, someone please fullfill the job called "full screen musician", and I will be wowed :) |
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ptoing
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271 |
Can we also have "offscreen graphician"? |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Quoting radiantxYeah, it's a never ending cold war: Do we vote a 10 for demos that were a 10 "back then" but look a little dated, or do we compare them to today's productions? Personally I go with the latter, just as I do with movies or music.
Well, in that case i would say for music and movies the older ones beat the newer ones 10 to 1 in every case. There's just no Jim Morrison or Stanley Kubrick around these days anymore.
Getting back onto the subject, you just cant compare anyone these days who is doing pixels in some of them shiny new gfx modes and compare them to any of the old masters, who were bound to strictly traditional koala format.
And i prefer a skillfully painted koala format picture over anything else, on any day of the week.
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Can we also have "offscreen graphician"?
Offbeat I can imagine. |
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yago
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 333 |
offscreen-graphicians are filed under (Disk) Cover Designer.
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Deev
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 206 |
Quote: Quoting radiantxYeah, it's a never ending cold war: Do we vote a 10 for demos that were a 10 "back then" but look a little dated, or do we compare them to today's productions? Personally I go with the latter, just as I do with movies or music.
Well, in that case i would say for music and movies the older ones beat the newer ones 10 to 1 in every case. There's just no Jim Morrison or Stanley Kubrick around these days anymore.
Getting back onto the subject, you just cant compare anyone these days who is doing pixels in some of them shiny new gfx modes and compare them to any of the old masters, who were bound to strictly traditional koala format.
And i prefer a skillfully painted koala format picture over anything else, on any day of the week.
I agree it's not fair to compare FLI modes to graphics done using a plain old multicolour bitmap, however, it's not like everyone only ever uses these new modes. There's been pictures in recent times from the likes of Sander, Mirage, Bizzmo, Mermaid, Joe, Ptoing etc that don't use any FLI type modes and IMO blow away all but the very best pictures from the Bob, Dokk era. |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Quoting deev There's been pictures in recent times from the likes of Sander, Mirage, Bizzmo, Mermaid, Joe, Ptoing etc that don't use any FLI type modes and IMO blow away all but the very best pictures from the Bob, Dokk era.
While i agree that some of the above mentioned are without a doubt among the best pixel artists around i totally don't see dokk, bob stevenson, hugh riley or robin levy being blown away by anyone. Equally matched maybe, but not blown away.
But maybe im just biased, i grew up with those graphics.
Also the tools that are available today make it a lot more convenient to make good looking pictures than what was available in the 80's.
I think there's rarely anyone using the same setup as the guys back in the old days did. And for those who do, i say respect.
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ptoing
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271 |
The thing with using new tools is, it does make things more convenient but it's not like a shit artist now can make something good easier. You can just do stuff faster. I mean, hell, Mermaid did loads of ace stuff (that imo kicks those guys asses) in Zoomatic with a Keyboard, that's about as hardcore as it gets. |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 946 |
People started doodling stick figures and stuff on rocks. I think Bob, Dokk and the likes stretched the boundaries in the 80s, next generation did the same and so on.. |
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ptoing
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271 |
true, there is lots of technical evolution in pixelart in general, not just C64. And when you look at what was there before the C64 and similar machines, what those guys did back then was mindblowing. We have the benefit of having the collected knowledge of 20 years of pixelling on all kinds of machines and can use that to do the stuff we do today. |
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Deev
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 206 |
Don't get me wrong, it's not that I don't appreciate some of the work done in the past, when I was a kid I especially thought Robin Levy was god and he was massively influential to me at the time.
Maybe I'm exageratting a little by saying they were blown away by todays works, but I am always surpised by how most (though admitedly not all) game graphics look much worse than I remember them being. Whilst maybe these graphicians paved the way for what we have today, the accepted standard has definately raised over time and things that I thought were the work of genius 15-20 years ago suddenly don't impress me much anymore.
Just a quick word about tools, I agree with what Ptoing said how they don't improve the quality, just make the process much faster. In addition to that, Koala, AAS, Vidcom or whatever they had in the late 80s were quite user friendly compared with some of the tools which followed. Until quite recently I used to pixel IFLI pics in Funpaint which was a real painful experience. |
