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The Shadow
Registered: Oct 2007
Posts: 304 |
Repeal Anonymous Voting
Anonymous voting allows cowards to abuse the voting system. People downvote like sneaky little bastards. If you are voting for a person, group or release and you feel that your particular vote is how you honestly feel then there is no reason to conceal your vote. Repealing anonymous voting would weed out a large portion of the downvoters. |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 727 |
..so it's this time of the year again :P |
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Skate
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 494 |
Quote: ..so it's this time of the year again :P
nope, i've already started this discussion a few months ago which ended up like all the previous ones. :) |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
@Groepaz: Please close this thread and kindly redirect The Shadow to Skate's thread. :) |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3050 |
Yes Groepaz, close the thread please. ;-) |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
A link to Skates thread perhaps? It's hard to locate it in the jungle of votesystem-fail-threads. Come to think of it, the fact that there is a multitude of threads about this should perhaps give an indication of something? Nah! Can't be.
Furthermore, I think the anonymous voting on CSDb must be destroyed. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
cant we finally kill the voting crap alltogether? *sigh*
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
It seems some people like votes, but prefer them not to be anonymous.
Is that such a hard feature to modify?
Are there waves upon waves of people wanting it to remain anonymous? Oh that's right, they are being anonymous. etc. |
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Skate
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 494 |
many people probably don't want to be judged and downvoted because of the votes they have given to others and choose to stay anonymous. but then, they are downvoted anonymously, too. that's the real ironi here. :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
jazzcat: so where can i check who voted what for vandalism news? |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
As a matter of fact, i've been temporarily downvoted in retaliation for a non-anonymous midrange vote i gave on another musician just a few weeks ago.
Mind though, I wasnt downvoting in the first place. It was an honest vote of mine.
So although i support public voting, i can understand why some people prefer to vote anonymously.
Not because they want to stir shit up but to avoid having their shit stirred for giving honest non-back-patting votes.
Still, i will keep my votes public. |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Quote: jazzcat: so where can i check who voted what for vandalism news?
I am not speaking about Vandalism News but the rules in general.
Transparency or a novice explanation: ball growing (excuse the pun, female members). |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
so where can i vote about who is in charge of vandalism news?
also i'd like to know where i can vote about the plasma vs rotzoom ratio in next booze designs demo! we definately need more plasmas! rotzoom suuuuuucks!
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2925 |
Just close the thread and add a FAQ about voting; pointing to the countless threads covering this same bullshit every year. |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Quote: so where can i vote about who is in charge of vandalism news?
also i'd like to know where i can vote about the plasma vs rotzoom ratio in next booze designs demo! we definately need more plasmas! rotzoom suuuuuucks!
Anonymous voting. Please don't go off-topic too much.
Remove the anonymous function. Quite simple. If there is overwhelming feedback to put it back, then likewise. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
Quote:Remove the anonymous function. Quite simple. If there is overwhelming feedback to put it back, then likewise.
what about making a website that publishes all vandalism votesheets, including who sent them? if no one looks at it, just delete it again. quite simple. |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Quote: Quote:Remove the anonymous function. Quite simple. If there is overwhelming feedback to put it back, then likewise.
what about making a website that publishes all vandalism votesheets, including who sent them? if no one looks at it, just delete it again. quite simple.
I don't mind doing that at all. But I haven't had anyone request it until now. If I receive further feedback of the same nature I will put it online (unlike some individuals I am willing to implement new ideas or change existing ones, e.g. an expanded "Credit" section in Vandalism that was suggested to me by an avid reader).
Regarding ANONYMOUS VOTING on CSDb. It has been suggested on numerous occasions by many people that it would nice to remove the anonymous feature.
Technically impossible? Trial it!
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Yazoo
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 227 |
keep the anonymous voting... there is a reason for it, and there also are reasons to have anonymous voting @ compos. simple as that ;-)
ok, if you want to kill the scene with a big explosion, then make them visible.
when i was voting visible, i had to deal with someone at breakpoint 2007 who didnt like that i voted a honest 5 on his latest tune. he was not amused, and so was i about having endless conversations about how i vote.
so i will always keep my votes hidden - no matter if ppl like it or not. and thats not because i want to downvote anyone.
and i dont see that most ppl @ csdb want to have the anonymous voting killed. just have a look - and find out, that most votes are anonymous. there must be a reason for that... yes... ppl prefer it that way, otherwise they wouldnt vote hidden.
so...
whatever. this was the last time i give my 2cents about this for some time - because theres too many threads about this... |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
yes, trial it. i leave that to you to implement this splendid idea as very first! grow some balls! |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3050 |
It would be nice to have alternative rank based on popularity..
You would just count all votes together and order the results from the highest sum of points to the lowest. ;-)
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Quote: yes, trial it. i leave that to you to implement this splendid idea as very first! grow some balls!
The trial was for the anonymous vote on CSDb.
Yazoo: thanks for the comments. I can appreciate the option positively when used appropriately. It would be nice if there was some option to appease both sides of the argument. Having a trial to see how it went would be nice I think, my constructive view anyway... |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
as yazoo said, *most* people vote anonymously, and for a good reason. (and some for a bad reason, shit happens). thats why anonymous voting exists, and will continue to exist. it is one of these things you can not force on the users, most of the anonymous voters simply will stop voting alltogether, and have there previous votes removed too.
something that is probably doable (rather easily even) would be an option to decide wether you want the anonymous votes included in the ranking that you see. |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Quote: as yazoo said, *most* people vote anonymously, and for a good reason. (and some for a bad reason, shit happens). thats why anonymous voting exists, and will continue to exist. it is one of these things you can not force on the users, most of the anonymous voters simply will stop voting alltogether, and have there previous votes removed too.
something that is probably doable (rather easily even) would be an option to decide wether you want the anonymous votes included in the ranking that you see.
Now the latter suggestion is a great idea I think. More discussion along that note would be good. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
i'll post it into the mod forum and point perff to it - looks like he is in coding mode atm :) |
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v3to
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 150 |
Quoting CreaMDIt would be nice to have alternative rank based on popularity..
You would just count all votes together and order the results from the highest sum of points to the lowest. ;-)
hm. actually i like the idea.
popularity just by summing up seems a bit vague when a vote of 5 means average. but using values -5 to 5 sounds good to me. some time ago i collected the csdb votes of all graphicians in the top ranking and tried some statistics this way.
http://vetodrom.com/media/common/CSDb_votes_graphician_04dec200..
btw there is one point i do not understand. the table contains calculated avarage votes next to the official ones in the csdb ranking. in most cases there is a distinct difference. are csdb votes weightened? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
Quote:are csdb votes weightened?
yep |
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6R6
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 245 |
Remove the csdb voting system and vote in the disk magazines instead.
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1074 |
Quote: i'll post it into the mod forum and point perff to it - looks like he is in coding mode atm :)
Here's a suggestion: give each user a preference where they can choose between:
Count all votes (i.e. same as now).
Count only public votes.
Minimal impact to the site, and people who don't like anonymous votes don't have to be bothered by them. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
yes, thats exactly what i ment. i'd add a little twist to it and for those who are not logged in show stats based on whatever setting the majority of users actually use - without telling which it is ofcourse =) |
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TWW
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 545 |
2 things I don't get:
#1: Why do people get so ass-sore for bad votes? Only thing I can think of is that these peoples mom told them they are NO. #1 throughout their entire life and "suddenly" they get depressed and shit when they find out they ain't...
#2: Why do people Downvote? Can't for the life of me figgure out the motive for this... Personal disputes and petty quarrels... come on...
To the lippwobblers out there: Toughen the fuck up.... Noone gives a rats ass... |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Personally, i would just display randomly generated votes at each page refresh. |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
Someone has voted Dutch Breeze 5/10
That is their choice. I think most will agree, it is a dumb choice.
If there was an option to vote:
'Vote Anonymous'
'Vote Known'
I would vote for Vote Known
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Yeah I show my votes too (obviously).
If someone gets a low vote from me, too bad...
Am I scared of their retaliation? Nah, this is a just the internetz... come on, take it on the chin and get on with it.
The deliberate down voters suck, if revealing the voters weeds them out, so be it! :D However I do like the idea of choosing to turn off anonymous votes... That fits everyone then...
I managed disk magazine voting, which is a different environment. You would rarely get anonymous votes (as an editor receiving the sheets) and the system had no weighting (so now down voting). Different scene, of course... :D The biggest problem were the Editors themselves who would manipulate the charts in favour of who they felt deserved the positions.
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
I'd vote to abandon the voting system as it's a complete waste of time. |
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Yazoo
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 227 |
Quote: I'd vote to abandon the voting system as it's a complete waste of time.
where exactly do you waste time? :) you (or anybody else who doesnt like votings) dont need to vote, check out others votes, or threads like this. amount of time wasted = 0 its up to you...
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Joe
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 226 |
To answer Groepaz a few lines back: "so where can i vote about who is in charge of vandalism news?"
There is the fantastic choices of different categories for each individual as far as I remember it.
But would it not have been more fascinating with the diversity, such as with old game-reviews of sorting each prod. according to Audial/Visual work, Durability and so forth, translated back here to an average of the total blend.
About the private or public voting system, I still believe there is the layer of integrity which at one point has to be questioned:
This is a private space. We are guests in this restaurant, some paying (not me) for the chefs cooking.
Could someone mention just one public space in this world, which is not governed by administration making it private over night by using the tool of a door! |
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TWW
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 545 |
Quote: To answer Groepaz a few lines back: "so where can i vote about who is in charge of vandalism news?"
There is the fantastic choices of different categories for each individual as far as I remember it.
But would it not have been more fascinating with the diversity, such as with old game-reviews of sorting each prod. according to Audial/Visual work, Durability and so forth, translated back here to an average of the total blend.
About the private or public voting system, I still believe there is the layer of integrity which at one point has to be questioned:
This is a private space. We are guests in this restaurant, some paying (not me) for the chefs cooking.
Could someone mention just one public space in this world, which is not governed by administration making it private over night by using the tool of a door!
What? You talk like Black Adder when he wanted to prove the dictionary guy was a hoax...
Alright... I had some beers...And some drinks... and there is a 50+ year oold guy sleeping on my couch who did a 15% pantspiss on me.... So what :-D |
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macx
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 253 |
Quote: I don't mind doing that at all. But I haven't had anyone request it until now. If I receive further feedback of the same nature I will put it online (unlike some individuals I am willing to implement new ideas or change existing ones, e.g. an expanded "Credit" section in Vandalism that was suggested to me by an avid reader).
Regarding ANONYMOUS VOTING on CSDb. It has been suggested on numerous occasions by many people that it would nice to remove the anonymous feature.
Technically impossible? Trial it!
David: Just to make things clear here. Regarding the anonymity of voters in VN, that is not your call to make alone.
Regarding the votes at CSDb am I not interested to bother in this debate. An aggregation of votes over years and years is a funny thing, but completely different from the contemporary charts in disk magazines - where a reset button is pressed with each issue as new votesheets are gathered. Please read my notes on it in the soon-to-come issue of VN. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
Quote:An aggregation of votes over years and years is a funny thing, but completely different from the contemporary charts in disk magazines - where a reset button is pressed with each issue as new votesheets are gathered.
you have a quite important point there, which again shows how little anyone should care about the votes here =P |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1074 |
Quote: yes, thats exactly what i ment. i'd add a little twist to it and for those who are not logged in show stats based on whatever setting the majority of users actually use - without telling which it is ofcourse =)
Or if we're really going to fix the voting system, simply hide the statistics and only show the (weighted) average - that's pretty much how every other site does it anyway. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
hide the statistics? and with it who voted what?
heretic ! /o\ |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
Quote: hide the statistics? and with it who voted what?
heretic ! /o\
Quite resonable I think. Instead of thinking "who the fuck downvoted me?" one would probably think "why the fuck did my release receive such low score, maybe I really do suck (yes you do, produce more and better to fix it)"
So, either remove the voting system completly (since it's flawed anyway because of too less voters), or remove the statistics. Making votes and statistics public will only create endless and useless debate instead of new productions imho. |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
If you don't have the balls to back your votes, then don't fucking vote at all.
That's the way I've always felt about it.
Get rid of the anonymous voting, that's the way I've always felt about that too.
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
Quote:So, either remove the voting system completly (since it's flawed anyway because of too less voters), or remove the statistics. Making votes and statistics public will only create endless and useless debate instead of new productions imho.
i totally agree =) however, try to convince those in this thread who want the anonymous voting removed completely (the entire opposite of what you propose).
what about additionally:
- users who set votes non public can also not see statistics (and who voted what)
- the "make votes public" setting can not be changed more than once a day (or maybe longer)
having an option sounds like a good alternative - those who insist on the drama can have it =)
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
Quote: If you don't have the balls to back your votes, then don't fucking vote at all.
That's the way I've always felt about it.
Get rid of the anonymous voting, that's the way I've always felt about that too.
It's not just about having balls, it's about having time and energy aswell. It takes close to zero effort to simply judge a release and vote for it. Explain the vote in depth however takes alot of energy.
More over, there are those people who are complely non-selfaware and would start to argue about downvoting and what not even when the production is totally useless and lame.
And again, I think having statistics hidden would perhaps actually encourage newbies to become better since they would only see a number and not a person => the only person they can blaim about the crappy average would be themselfs and the only reasonable thing to do to get a higher vote would be to create a better release instead of starting arguments with the so called downvoters.
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Quote: If you don't have the balls to back your votes, then don't fucking vote at all.
That's the way I've always felt about it.
Get rid of the anonymous voting, that's the way I've always felt about that too.
Awesome.
It is about backing yourself.
If you can't do that, don't vote. Less votes, but honest and transparent.
edit: and as someone who has never had anonymous votes activated. I have never ever received any email or PM from anyone regarding my votes. I am a very active scener and have been on CSDb for a LONG time. |
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JCB
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: |
Somewhat offtopic post follows as it's more of a suggestion than another opinion on anonymous voting....
I posted about this the last time voting was mentioned...
I still think the votes should be killed and change it to a user favourites (or Likes to use THAT term) list. A lot of stuff can be done with that eg the way Last.fm will give suggestions after correlating the data and checking who has a similar list to you it can then suggest things you may have missed, you can check friends lists or other things on lists where a prod appears (can be shown on the release page).
The system could take the current user votes and anything over a set amount (no reason to not allow the user to set the limit) converts into a "liked" prod.
People can show their appreciation, there's no downvoting because there's no votes because you can only "not like" it and judging by a quick look at the current charts the number of votes (to be converted to likes) correlates quite nicely to the position already.
All in all, atm there's no real discovery on this site (ie finding great stuff that u don't already know about or have been specifically linked to by someone). Someone suggested showing a couple of random uploads on each page refresh, like the games on Lemon but this could put people onto stuff they've never seen just because it's old or by a group you never heard of.
Yeah, it needs some code doing but not a lot for the basics (converting votes to likes and being able to view someone else's favourite/like list). The better stuff could come later.
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
JCB: that is a good suggestion, a status rather than a figure. In that context I don't mind the anonymous part too only if the concept of downvoting, at large, is defeated. |
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JCB
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: |
..just to avoid confusion after reading back what I just wrote, by "not like" I don't mean there's an "I don't like this" option, if you don't like it, it just doesn't appear in your list.
Yeahhhh, it's all a bit namby pamby argument stopping, ego salving ;) (which is why there's no "dislike" button facebook, it'd just cause too much hassle) but it's also a good system overall. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
Quote:edit: and as someone who has never had anonymous votes activated. I have never ever received any email or PM from anyone regarding my votes. I am a very active scener and have been on CSDb for a LONG time.
No. votes given: 244 - Average vote: 9.04
not surprising if you dont vote for the crap at all =) |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Quote: Quote:edit: and as someone who has never had anonymous votes activated. I have never ever received any email or PM from anyone regarding my votes. I am a very active scener and have been on CSDb for a LONG time.
No. votes given: 244 - Average vote: 9.04
not surprising if you dont vote for the crap at all =)
Groepaz: Indeed! 9.04 is quite nice... so a new category, an "up-voter" :P
Regardless, I write comments, I vote, I am active across all channels in the scene. Feedback is minimal (unless you include Wanderer) and I do bitchslap from time to time also.
Anyone else here vote low figures and get much feedback? Share your stories please! |
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Ed
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 173 |
Funny thing. The suggested "change" of the vote system sounds like a fixed presentation. It's like when the king and his sneaky advisors avoids confronting the discontent of the people or the hag with the mirror, "Mirror, mirror on the wall / Who in the land is fairest of all?"
Leave it as is and vote more.
One little hack and all the votes are visible, that is if some of you are interested in opening the backdoor to this place.
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2581 |
After this thread has gone up and down, there finally came a suggestion that I feel honestly convinced to support 100%, and that is JCB's "Like" button. No possibility to downvote, it clearly mirrors the popularity, would be easy to implement (I assume), and it satisfies all the different directions shown here, which can never come together, judging from this debate so far.
We would also get rid of the "5-vote-treshold", and existing votes could be easily converted (e.g. every vote from 6 upwards equals a "Like").
Maybe even more people would vote, as it is easier and more convenient to just click a button, and that's it.
More complicated things like lists of what some specific user "likes" could come later, if at all.
I say go for it, so that peace returns, and we can concentrate again on what this website is really about: a place to conserve the C64 scene history, and a place to discuss things concerning the scene and the C64. I hate to see discussions get so heated here so that people turn away and do not support the true purpose of csdb anymore, which is the one thing we can all agree on, and which everybody values.
Give it a try, please!
C64 forever!!!
-Bugjam |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3050 |
This post will be lacking any constructive ideas, but I felt like finally letting out some thoughts connected with my presence on this page I had over the years.
First of all, I have conflict of interests.
Being mod here, I can't do anything about the fact that I see who anonymously downvoted me. Sometimes I understand why the certain person did it, (e.g. to get me lower in the list than himself or someone else), sometimes I don't. Those I don't understand quite fascinate me. Met the dude personally, he was a nice friendly person, but he (anonymoysly) thinks that as a musician I'm under average. I always considered myself to by kinda inconsiderate and slacker as a musician, but having that "assured" based on one or two votes hurts one's ego I can tell you. I'm sure if the system was totally anonymous there would be higher chance to get more negative votes on my musician profession, because around me in the rank there are some really good musicians. Who am I to dare to sit on the place close or above to them! ;-)
Being mod here, I can't do anything about the fact that I have been non-anonymously downvoted by person who thinks I'm asshole and deserve that. Apart from the fact that my stereotypes about behavioral patterns and ethics of German sceners are being reinforced.
On the surface and in some parts of my mind, I never cared about that, but some parts of me connected with fight for justice, and (never had problem to admit it) the part responsible for vanity and egoism can't be suppressed completely. Being in the position of mod unfortunately doesn't give much chances to do anything about of that. I can't afford to be called touchy, can't afford to be accused of abusing of my privileges. So there is kind of opposite forces which do make accepting of society a bit uncomfortable In larger scale expose (around the compos and parties I organized, where I experienced and saw a lot more "evil" inside us) this has driven me to mild state misanthropy.
You can make any solution to the voting system, it won't make everyone satisfied. Therefore for everyone around the creative scene it's best to take Andy Warhol's advice:
Don't pay any attention to what they write about you. Just measure it in inches.
The same can be applied on how one should look at voting system. They vote for you? Good. They recognize you.
There are other things one has to learn to accept. Fair votes for example. So your groupmate gave you 7 as organizer? You can't do anything about it. The most important thing is to not looking around you, doing your thing. Not to boast about past achievements but always do something you consider good, and... ... measure the response in inches. You know how good you are, and results of your work speak for you too. The votes are just couple of silly numbers and ranks only show the bubbles on the surface of the lake called scene. You can alway throw a big stone in water and see how much circles it makes.
Roman |
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Martin Piper
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 718 |
Warhol isn't a good example because he was not in a position to do anything about the problem, whereas we are because making changes to the voting system is easily possible. All it needs is a small tweak. |
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Kristian
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 126 |
I vote (10 (anonymously)) for JCB's suggestion. |
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 677 |
See i.e. post #10 here:
http://noname.c64.org/csdb/forums/?roomid=7&topicid=71700&showa.. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
Quote:Groepaz: Indeed! 9.04 is quite nice... so a new category, an "up-voter" :P
and thats quite an important detail - just as much it is everones right to "up vote" whoever, it is everyones right to "down vote". if anything, not only getting rid of the downvoters, but also getting rid of the upvoters is equally important. so how you are going to fix that? =) |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3050 |
Martin, we can do something about that but in the process, we will lose something.
By making only non anonymous votes counted for some of us, not everyone will get fairer rank. Not all unfair downvoters are anonymous.
And even when I love the idea of having just "like". I found that evil, because it removes simple disagreement from the equation. For example if soemone don't agree with having Desert Dream (139 votes) in top 10 (place 9, One-Der has just 93 votes), because you consider it unfair to be above the original C64 productions, by not pressing like you can't express such disagreement. It brings the "necessity" to handle the disagreement that is reasoned and communicated openly. Not everyone want's to argue about such things though and also it won't beat the popularity vote. And btw. I love the demo and I don't have anything against it being 10, it was just example of how some other people can view things.
By this way you also lose the big part of feedback on less popular things. The ranks will be more influenced by popularity than actual evaluation of quality by voters. Of course not always the judgement of quality is fair, but at least there is some chance for exposure for releases or sceners that are voted 10 for 5 times and then downvoted by someone who thinks it doesn't deserve such a high mark.
In past I tried to fight against unfair voting. Better said, the voting I considered unfair from my point of view. But over those 9-10 years I realised that this society is too diversified and that I can't prevent myself from being biased. If I was author/owner of this system I wouldn't mind cleaning downvotes anywhere I considered it fair, even on my account, because my system, my rules, but here I'm just a guest and a part of it, I try to live with it and ignore the ocassional disenchanting feelings. Being completely ignored is probably much worse than having someone downvoting you because he hates you. ;-)
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Jon
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 247 |
Perhaps a simpler solution might be to allow the user / submitter to enable or disable voting for an entry or "scene role"?
That way the submitter wields more control over their own entries and can decide whether public scrutiny is welcome or not. The current voting system can stay in place, more power is given to the user and the bi-monthly threads complaining about the voting system will disappear.
Just a thought.
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
if you dont want to know - just dont look at the result? |
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Jon
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 247 |
Quote: if you dont want to know - just dont look at the result?
You could have saved us all 60+ posts of discussion had you said that straight away.
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Quote: Quote:Groepaz: Indeed! 9.04 is quite nice... so a new category, an "up-voter" :P
and thats quite an important detail - just as much it is everones right to "up vote" whoever, it is everyones right to "down vote". if anything, not only getting rid of the downvoters, but also getting rid of the upvoters is equally important. so how you are going to fix that? =)
I am wanting transparency in the votes. My votes are not hidden. Just as are my comments in the disk mags over the years. The rants in scrollers in cracks and many other things. What I dislike about CSDb is that there is anonymous voting. There needs to be accountability. Back up your vote or don't vote! It is as simple as that (I am sure I have stressed this and we are now just covering old ground again).
There is several good ideas I have seen in this thread, but there is no talk of progress from the moderators or CSDb owner on when/if/how they will be implemented.
# 'Like' system.
# 'Filter' system. (disable anonymous etc)
etc.
These ideas are acceptable and certainly an improvement on the current voting system.
Let's see less talk and more action (like the 'Email Notification' that was implemented lately, thumbs up!). |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3050 |
In internal forum Perff accepted the idea of having the filter system. He didn't say when he makes the changes, though. |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Quote: In internal forum Perff accepted the idea of having the filter system. He didn't say when he makes the changes, though.
Thanks! Nice to know it is on the "to do" list.
Comparing the filter on/off anonymous system to the Like system. I favour the Like system further. |
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Conrad
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 847 |
I talking drunk here... but... from my experience you simply watch the "Users Online" at the exact time when you get a vote... then you know who that "anonymous" guy actually is. I've learnt that over time. So yeah, I know who some of the anonymous guys are when they voted my stuff, but that doesn't necessarily mean I disagree with their vote value, because at the end of the day... none of us have the same views on stuff. Reading through all this thread is just blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah... people like and dislike different things..... GET USED TO IT! |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3050 |
*rolleyes* ;-) |
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FATFrost
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 211 |
Hmmm, voting is really for someone trying to win something.. Is csdb a huge demo competition everyone is trying to win? I think we should Scrap voting as csdb is just a database of c64 scene releases isn't it? And voting is just there to say how much you like something.. Which can also be proved ny the amount of downloads.? Anyway.... ;) |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3187 |
Quote: Hmmm, voting is really for someone trying to win something.. Is csdb a huge demo competition everyone is trying to win? I think we should Scrap voting as csdb is just a database of c64 scene releases isn't it? And voting is just there to say how much you like something.. Which can also be proved ny the amount of downloads.? Anyway.... ;)
no, number of downloads doesn't mean anything. Some good stuff may be left overlooked, many crap and even not working downloads have a counter of over 500. |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
What about the non-anonymous downvoters ? |
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Sander
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 493 |
Quote: What about the non-anonymous downvoters ?
Gotto appreciate those :) |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3050 |
Quoting StainlessWhat about the non-anonymous downvoters ?
as I said above...
"By making only non anonymous votes counted for some of us, not everyone will get fairer rank. Not all unfair downvoters are anonymous."
the new filter feature won't be a miracle solution.
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1647 |
Just wanted to remind people that all those that do not care about various issues in various treads (such as this one) has a tendency not to bother writing posts in these threads, for obvious reasons. Why write a post to say that you don't care about something? Hence, it is easy to get the impression that these issues are "big issues" that "many members" of this board "cares a lot" about, even if that might actually not be the case.
Therefore, I would like to make an exception to the tendency mentioned above, to say explicitly that I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY don't care about the issue of anonymous voting on CSDb. ...and the point is that I think the vast majority of the users here are with me in having this stance towards this issue. I can't be sure of that, of course. How would you know? ...but I would bet on it.
At least I think this possibility should be taken into account. If it is true, then there is no need to panic. Just leave things the way they are (because that is the easiest), and everything will be just fine (even though the few yellers may give you the impression of something else).
:)
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macx
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 253 |
Quoting Frantic
At least I think this possibility should be taken into account. If it is true, then there is no need to panic. Just leave things the way they are (because that is the easiest), and everything will be just fine (even though the few yellers may give you the impression of something else).
Word!
Differentiate between The Charts in disk magazines and aggregated votes in various online fora. |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Quote: What about the non-anonymous downvoters ?
Haha. They have guts and balls! That's for sure. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3050 |
I'm not speaking generally, but in one particular case it seems it is quite easy to have guts and balls when you are idiot whose number of handles is almost as big as number of releases, which means that as far as your reputation is concerned you don't have anything to lose.
And generally, the less people achieved or know, the more they tend to have extreme judgements not taking context into account. |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
So, apart from not wanting to receive emails or to take the effort in discussing your vote with the scener/group etc involved. What other reasons are there to be anonymous? |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1074 |
Quoting FranticTherefore, I would like to make an exception to the tendency mentioned above, to say explicitly that I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY don't care about the issue of anonymous voting on CSDb. ...and the point is that I think the vast majority of the users here are with me in having this stance towards this issue.
Indeed, I'm squarely in the don't care camp too, but I think most of us would want these whiny voting threads to FOAD. Hence my rather drastic suggestion to simply hide the voting statistics - there just wouldn't be any fodder for the threads.
A filter's a good start though. |
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Ed
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 173 |
Some days ago I answered on a mail here and will let you in on my quick views:
Concerning the anonymous voting discussion in general I dont think many people will suffer badly if the votes went public, as there are only a few percentage (me, James, Yazoo and some more people) that actually have taken some time to vote around here.
Most of you guys that raise your voices have usually only voted around 150+ votes and have seldom more than a few 50+ releases in the scene. It's all there. Just check the statistics.
I feel the whole discussion is rather limiting in the first place as it would probably be more fruitful if we could attack it from a different angle. Of course, there have been attempts to show that the voting algorithm in general is not a good one and that basically everything about the voting system, from navigation, frequency of voters and activity, to anonymous or public votes, etc. has flaws.
Usually there are some "patches", "filters" or "new formulas" suggested that even moderators at times end up telling us that they'll take under consideration, but in the end of the day it still looks the same.
Usually discussions are pointed to examples such as election votes and also imdb votes, etc. and the counter-reaction is that "well that's a completely different thing" because it works there. And then a number of different reasons why, all returning to the source of the problem: there is simply too little energy put into the voting here. There are numerous other obvious problems with such a comparison which I will leave out here. Get out of the loop.
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
*applause*
time to close the thread :) |
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v3to
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 150 |
leaving personal preferences behind i agree that the quantity of votes is the only real issue here (and probably deleting votes of people that left as csdb members)... with more votes there would be no reason for down/upvote or anonymous discussion. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
indeed, as said countless times before ... if there is a significant number of votes, then "upvoting" and "downvoting" becomes statistically irrelevant to the result. and if there isnt a significant number of votes, then the entire result is irrelevant from the start, no matter how you twist it =P |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
So the conclusion is to spend more time voting and less time in this thread. ;) |
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terric
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 47 |
Can't help myself, just had to comment this.
If all people which can vote(csdb users) have a non anonymous vote, will they vote less?
I actually think so. No matter how much people talk about that they are gonna vote anyway, i believe some of them doesn't.
I am not an anonymous voter, but i doesn't like removal of this feature.
Votes on Magazine sheets haven't been public, have they ?
Well there you have some more views on this. :)(if i haven't second anyone)
Terric
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2581 |
Quote: Martin, we can do something about that but in the process, we will lose something.
By making only non anonymous votes counted for some of us, not everyone will get fairer rank. Not all unfair downvoters are anonymous.
And even when I love the idea of having just "like". I found that evil, because it removes simple disagreement from the equation. For example if soemone don't agree with having Desert Dream (139 votes) in top 10 (place 9, One-Der has just 93 votes), because you consider it unfair to be above the original C64 productions, by not pressing like you can't express such disagreement. It brings the "necessity" to handle the disagreement that is reasoned and communicated openly. Not everyone want's to argue about such things though and also it won't beat the popularity vote. And btw. I love the demo and I don't have anything against it being 10, it was just example of how some other people can view things.
By this way you also lose the big part of feedback on less popular things. The ranks will be more influenced by popularity than actual evaluation of quality by voters. Of course not always the judgement of quality is fair, but at least there is some chance for exposure for releases or sceners that are voted 10 for 5 times and then downvoted by someone who thinks it doesn't deserve such a high mark.
In past I tried to fight against unfair voting. Better said, the voting I considered unfair from my point of view. But over those 9-10 years I realised that this society is too diversified and that I can't prevent myself from being biased. If I was author/owner of this system I wouldn't mind cleaning downvotes anywhere I considered it fair, even on my account, because my system, my rules, but here I'm just a guest and a part of it, I try to live with it and ignore the ocassional disenchanting feelings. Being completely ignored is probably much worse than having someone downvoting you because he hates you. ;-)
Just one comment on the "disagreement" thing: for me, that is just another form of (unjustified) downvoting. A production should be judged honestly for its quality, and not for its position in the charts. In your example, if you disagree with Desert Dreams being in the top ten, and you vote it a "1" to get it lower, that is not a fair vote, it just serves a "tactical" purpose. One has to live with the opinion of the majority, so that is no reason not to try out this system. If you want another demo to overtake, just open a thread to make people aware of another production you think deserves more "likes". We could have an "endless" thread (like the "tunes missing in HVSC"), where everyone can post something he/she thinks deserves more attention (should be moderated very strictly to serve only this purpose, though, to avoid endless discussions about this and that demo).
One last word on anonymous voting: for me, I just feel more free to vote anonymously (and, yes, fair), because I just want to avoid any hurt personal feelings, and to avoid those discussions Yazoo was pointing out. Would I vote less if the anonymous voting disappeared? Probably yes.
Best regards,
Bugjam |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Actually i'm in favor for keeping the votes. Do not underestimate the entertainment value of good old CSDb drama. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
I have two words for you, misters:
fuck
you |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Quote: I have two words for you, misters:
fuck
you
That was not anonymous! Oh noes... Jailbird, prepare for heaps of emails!!!! :P |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3050 |
Vote registered for Jailbird
creamd, your vote of 1 for Jailbird as BBS Graphician has been registered.
Want to make another vote for this scener? Click here
To review your votes take a look at your vote history.
A breakdown of user votes will be displayed here once we have 5 or more votes for this entry |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
The fact that people vote less if the votes aren't anonymous is a not a very good reason to keep things the way they are. What you gain from people daring to lay an honest vote in anonymity is shadowed by the heavy abuse of said anonymity in terms of downvoting and tactical voting. When the function one day is implemented, i'll purge the anonymous votes straight out of my event-horizon and treat them like the flawed part of a system they are.
On other alternatives; the "like"- button isn't a good option either; even the thumbs up, down- and piggy-system of Pouet is better than this. Public negative opinions ftw.
Save for this, I really think the anonymous voting on CSDb must be destroyed. |
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Sixx
Registered: May 2005
Posts: 229 |
What HCL and Jailbird said:
Seriously, why is this topic so important? I see alot of down voters that are not anonymous. The charts looks decent to me, i'm an up voter myself. If some jerks down vote something / someone good i'll up vote.. I HAVE down voted idiots like WDR and that kinda people but i guess we all have? ;)
If only more people actually would vote for our diskmags we'd see better charts in those. ONS/WD: You need a webinterface for easy voting. Same goes to Triad..
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
For something different ... Do you shave your butt? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
back to topic please.
can we downvote your butt ? |
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Cresh
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 354 |
Please, please, make it 12 pages and I will finally start (down)voting in here.
Promise. |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
Quote: Here's a suggestion: give each user a preference where they can choose between:
Count all votes (i.e. same as now).
Count only public votes.
Minimal impact to the site, and people who don't like anonymous votes don't have to be bothered by them.
*BUMP* (It's this time of year again!) |
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Bitbreaker
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 504 |
i don't think there's a problem with downvoting but with brainlessly upvoting of popular shit and people. |
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Flex
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 110 |
I sense the problem (if you can really call it a problem), is that some people are not voting what they really think of the product before first looking at the average (or what other people have voted) and then trying to down-/upvote it making the average fit more into their taste.. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
i think the problem is mostly that no matter what people vote, someone will be butthurt. |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
I think the problem is that there's anonymous voting. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
anonymous voting can only ever be a problem for those who think they feel better if they can complain and/or take revenge on whoever voted something they dont agree with. ie: butthurt. |
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Glasnost
Account closed
Registered: Aug 2011
Posts: 26 |
If you have a voting system, it might as well be fair.
Heres a suggestion.
In some sports the best and the worst grade is removed, and then the score is based on the average of the last 3-4 judges.
Maybe if the system took out the worst and best 10%, alot of crap would be filtered out. Eg. Deus Ex Machina and Andropolis has a few severe downvoters.. No mentally healthy people would rate them a 1/10...
Best regards, Glasnost |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
So, let people keep their anonymous voting. I'm not suggesting removal as people obviously find it to be a splendid idea to let a minority abuse the votesystem - I just want to be able to ignore all the anonymous votes and set my view to "only view registered votes".
So, how about adding something like "WHERE voter.id <> -1 AND loggedinuser.showanonymous = FALSE" to the code?
That way us grumpy old whiners can filter out the anonymous voters. |
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Testa
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 197 |
anonymous voting is lame.. dont you have the balls to show your selfs?... come on... life and die like a man!
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ChristopherJam
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1408 |
Eh, it'd be interesting to have two scores for each production (one including anons, one not). Better yet, to see a scatter plot of one against the other, to see if it really affects the rankings, or just adds an overall bias.
As for upvotes and down votes, as various people have said they tend to be drowned out if enough people vote sensibly. I do prefer having a range of possible votes over a simple like/dislike.
Perhaps an alternate "solution" would be to place more weight on votes in the middle of the range? Either with something coarse like an interquartile mean (though this would be pretty meaningless if there are only a few votes), or something more sophisticated like sorting all the votes into order, and weighting each vote by (eg) t*(1-t), where t is (sorted vote index+0.5)/votecount.
The current weighting system is really quite mysterious; I'm pretty sure I've seen a production's score decrease after someone added a vote higher than the previous score..
(ETA haha, I should have hit refresh before posting on a page I loaded hours ago. Credit to Glasnost for suggesting much the same idea as my proposed solution. Down with outliers!) |
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Testa
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 197 |
live and die like a man!..
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
I don't want public voting to take revenge, but because people generally act differently in public than in private. So I predict that most unreasonable votes will disappear by themselves. Personally I couldn't care less about rankings and stuff like that these days, but e.g. for CSDB-based compos it's a shame to see anonymous downvoters trying to screw with the results. |
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Ejner
Registered: Oct 2012
Posts: 43 |
Being fairly new on CSDb and kindof re-entering the c64 scene here, I quickly noticed just how competitive the c64 scene seems to be around here. Competition is ok for those who wish to compete, but others might just want some good old c64 fun without being judged. Making votes optional for each release could be an idea? Or replace them with "likes"? which is more supportive rather than the low anonymous demoralising votes.
And as mentioned by many others, the anonymous votes often aren't fair, it seems there is some serious downvoting going on, but seemingly also some upvoting on own or groupmember's releases is taking place... Good for the big groups of course, but not really objective is it?
I too am a big fan of transparent, fair voting.
Just my 2 cents... |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
<Post edited by chatGPZ on 28/2-2013 23:45>
Quote:for CSDB-based compos it's a shame to see anonymous downvoters trying to screw with the results
that however is the fault of those who think csdb is a suitable platform to organize voting for a compo. (interestingly, voting at most other compos is anonymous too... strange eh) |
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2581 |
Quote: I sense the problem (if you can really call it a problem), is that some people are not voting what they really think of the product before first looking at the average (or what other people have voted) and then trying to down-/upvote it making the average fit more into their taste..
I had this thought too (and even though I'm trying, I can't say I am completely away from it when voting myself); for this I would have a suggestion: like with many online polls, how about showing the voting result only _after_ you have voted yourself? So at least you would be forced to really vote on the product, and not on what other people voted on it before. (It would also include not being able to change your vote afterwards, so you have to put thought into it, as it is final). |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Quoting Groepazthat however is the fault of those who think csdb is a suitable platform to organize voting for a compo. (interestingly, voting at most other compos is anonymous too... strange eh) So that means CSDB is a perfectly suitable platform for compos, doesn't it? :) |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
Quote: Quote:for CSDB-based compos it's a shame to see anonymous downvoters trying to screw with the results
that however is the fault of those who think csdb is a suitable platform to organize voting for a compo. (interestingly, voting at most other compos is anonymous too... strange eh)
Regarding your last comment and your way earlier comments comparing CSDb-specific voting to other voting-platforms:
One of the main differences is that the outcome of the voting is kept secret until the voting is finished. Tactical voting and downvoting is limited to wild speculations. Furthermore, a normal compo finishes at a date and after the deadline no more votes are accepted. So much for strangeness.
Oh yes - none of the above applies to CSDb voting. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
"So that means CSDB is a perfectly suitable platform for compos, doesn't it? :)"
read what twoflower wrote =) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
"Downvoting...
Guys, is there any chance to get information on some asshole who downvoted me just by 1? I don't give a sh#$ really but i think it's a little bit unfair."
and this gentlemen, is why. (also the one who wrote that should feel bitchslapped and go stand in the corner. no dinner for you today) |
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Yazoo
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 227 |
yep...
anonymous voting is fine... downvoting, namevoting, upvoting is not nice, but part of the szene.
non-anonymous voting would mean that the csdb explodes because ppl start hating eachother.
sure, i am also pissed when someone downvotes me for a couple minutes, but i got to live with that.
it has been part of the szene as long as it exists.
and why does nobody complain about anonymous compo-voting at parties?
its exactly the same for me
if you want better voting-results at csdb... well, then vote more and tell other ppl to vote more.
because with a big amount of votes, it doesnt matter much if there is two or three downvotes.
simple as that
ok. now i am waiting for the topic to come back next year |
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 323 |
My opinion on anon/troll voting: *YAWN* I don't care. There's more important things in life to worry about than this silly nonsense. |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Quoting Yazooand why does nobody complain about anonymous compo-voting at parties? Everyone knows that partycompos always have been unfair, especially the ones that end at 6 in the morning and only a few drunk bastards vote. No reason to strive for making CSDB results equally unfair. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
so you acknowledge that party organizers have a hard time making a few hundred people vote properly for a handful productions at a party - but you expect it to work when less people vote for thousends of productions on the internet?
i need a big spliff now |
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Yazoo
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 227 |
cruzer: so oxyron won unfair? :)
well - you may be right - but dont blame it on the voting-system... blame it on ppl not voting.
so those who were still awake had the right to decide the compo.
i know it was hard to stay awake that late. but some did... most didnt
did you vote btw? |
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2581 |
I did vote, and now I have to read that I am considered a "drunk bastard". Just joking. :-)
Anyway, the "tactical voting" could be indeed avoided by not showing the vote unless you have voted yourself. |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
A little hate in the scene never hurts. Creates rivalries and more demos/cracks! |
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NecroPolo
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 231 |
Quote: A little hate in the scene never hurts. Creates rivalries and more demos/cracks!
That's bullshit, man :)
Brotherhood is the only thing that supports any scene and that's the only thing that matters for its survival. All the rest is BS.
About voting and rating hubble-bubble, I couldn't care less. Anything you do there will be lovers and haters, that's life. I'd rather have 10 haters and 1 lover than 11 neutrals. There will be open helmet fighters and coward motherfuckers, that's life. Some folks like throwing crap and almost everyone love watching that - so, what?
If anything of that or feedback or criticism or anyone's opinion in general can blend you anywhere with your ideas and art - fucking quit. |
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2925 |
Quoting FungusA little hate in the scene never hurts. Creates rivalries and more demos/cracks!
So true, so true. |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
Dudes, all you gotta do is vote more. Problem solved.
Dear Groepaz, would you mind using proper quote tags pretty please with a cherry on top? It's not THAT hard once you get the hang of it ;) |
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Raffox|HF
Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 15 |
Quote: Dudes, all you gotta do is vote more. Problem solved.
Dear Groepaz, would you mind using proper quote tags pretty please with a cherry on top? It's not THAT hard once you get the hang of it ;)
Or... don't vote at all :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
"Dear Groepaz, would you mind using proper quote tags pretty please with a cherry on top? It's not THAT hard once you get
the hang of it ;)"
i recommend reading up on www.duden.de on how proper quoting is done. RE: FU |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
Pimmel! <3 |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
go make a demo about it! |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Guys, cut this shit off, really.
As long as some of the more influental CSDb admins are against anonymous voting, nothing at all will change considering this topic.
It's about time to realize you're figthing a lost battle. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
i dont think any of the admins is against anonymous voting :) (the only admin is perff btw, but the moderators share that opinion for the most part) |
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celticdesign
Registered: Oct 2005
Posts: 149 |
are elections anonymous? ;-)
my solution for the TOP ranking is: list/allow only entries with over 100 votes... for compos's -> don't care!!! |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Whatever.
It always seemed that you guys have more vote-weight on changes in the site's main functionalities than Perff, the absolute majority of those who fill up this place with new stuff, and those who kept suggesting very useful changes for years, combined; anyway.
Which is just baffling, plain disgusting, and is the reason why I lately avoid CSDb like plague.
So just enjoy your little self-esteem improvenet bubble. I'm outta here.
Please disable my account. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
Quote:my solution for the TOP ranking is: list/allow only entries with over 100 votes...
i'd make it so no result is shown ever, unless 100 votes. that pretty much solves every problem discussed here. at least for the 3 entries that would get enough votes =) |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Quoting JailbirdAs long as some of the more influental CSDb admins are against anonymous voting, nothing at all will change considering this topic. The more influential "admins" of East Germany were against tearing down the Berlin Wall too, but that still happened in the end due to public pressure. So things can change, even though the powers that be might be against it. |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 248 |
I doubt the admins here will improve The votingsystem, they just do Not care enough it seems. It could be so easy to make a more fair System. . |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
fair means: it equally sucks for everyone. we are quite there =)
and as much as some people would like it, the one and only one who could change this is perff. the moderators (again: not admins) cant not ever do anything about it at all. (and they are not supposed to do it either)
but you are correct, most of them dont give a shit. maybe if every other issue of this website has been solved, then i might bother thinking about how to convince perff to "better" the voting crap =P |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 248 |
then perff does not care enough...
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
Lot's of complaints... I would like to that Perff and the moderators for maintaining this site (which is quite essential for the C64 scene to survive at all) on their spare time. Thank you for that!
Then I agree that there are probably betters ways to handle a voting system with few participants than the current, but I have to agree with Groepaz: There are other things that might need attention first and given the very little "free" time adults have nowadays it's a serious matter of prioritizing your time, and honesty I agree that the voting system has to come low. The recent fixes for forum-width using the CSS-wrap stuff and the csdb.dk redirection was much more needed fixes. |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 248 |
well. give out the source, hire an php coder. i guess there a lot of people who could improve things here for free ;)
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Bob
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 71 |
Ahh in order to change things would require representatives that are heard lets say a "blue party"..
that pushes fwd others thoughts and having discussion with the members of the e.g. csdb board ;) or other scene related sites or issues regarding the interest of the scene.
like scene politics ;) hehehe if everyone are so involved it is to every one to contribute... like voting 8)=)
Scene Politics... ;)
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1089 |
in order to change things, there should be more ppl than Perff alone with access to the source code.
It's awesome he makes time for important bugfixes as it is, but I totally understand making bigger changes to the system is too much.
So, I'd help no problem! |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 248 |
very nice =)
if he would need a test env* i could provide one.
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
i think i have a dejavu |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
I have several. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1089 |
and as long as nothing changes, we stay in the vicious circle
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
it never fit so well: GO MAKE A DEMO ABOUT IT! =) |
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Cresh
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 354 |
This thread should be refreshed every now and then, just to feel the heat. |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Quoting Yazoocruzer: so oxyron won unfair? :)
[...]
did you vote btw? Yes, I voted for "Unknown Demo/Unknown Group" as #1 @ X, so I can't complain about that result. And ofcuz comporesults aren't always 100% wrong, but in most compos there's usually at least one result which seems to be totally too high or low placed. On CSDB it seems like less of a problem, but it's still a shame to see e.g. Artphosis get a 1 vote from an anonymous downvote coward. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11359 |
imho its a shame that a lot of crappy music and graphics entry get anything but backpetting and votes in the 7 to 10 range for that matter.
that however has *nothing* to do with "fair voting". |
