@Krill, did you manage to look under the hood how Dalthon is doing that?

Be civil, guys. :-)

Anyway, the discussion was about something being or not being real-time. But what exactly qualifies as real-time I ask? I mean, if LUTs are being used for some effect, is it really real-time? Should it be considered real-time? How many true real-time stuff is C64 capable of anyway? I'm not sure what to think, so I'm asking.

Anyone complaining about animation should provide similar effects, but in real-time.

In my book, realtime vs animation boils down to how many degrees of freedom there are for rendering.

Anyone complaining about animation should provide similar effects, but in real-time.

Some demos/effects come with a user-mode to interrupt the streamlined trackmo presentation and play around with a joystick.

Quoting Krill

Some demos/effects come with a user-mode to interrupt the streamlined trackmo presentation and play around with a joystick.

Hard to do nowadays, since interactivity, even of the sort of 'press space to advance the mega-demo' fell out of grace at the parties (understandably so) in favor of the trackmo format.

So for you two a "painting" made by sending a prompt to DALL-E, wins over a true painting, because you cant tell the difference just by looking at it.

No magic for me in packing down animations to small sizes, sorry. C64 scene was always about doing shit realtime, and for me will always will be.

In a coding competition, I could understand the effort. For a demo competition like X, being brutally honest, I don't

C64 scene was always about doing shit realtime, and for me will always will be.

in the late 90s/00s

If similar logic would be applied to any C64 production, no one would have any right to bash Wile Coyote converts anymore

I do appreciate all the effort that was made to put E2IRA to life

while the current discussion is actually related to code

Sure, what I'm trying to say is: a) there is code, b) there is difficulty and effort there, yet you keep comparing the code of this demo to effortless gfx wiring

yet not something that could be placed between other purely realtime-calculated demos

People whining about the demo should rather think about why they were not clever enough to do it like this.

A demo is there to entertain an audience as good as it can.

On the other other hand it's also somewhat disappointing to see that some coders don't believe in the 9th sprite, which is very real. =)

So a picture must come with workstages, prooving that it was done out of pure skill of the pixeler himself only. No copy, no wiring, no retouching, thats lame!

Also music copied is frowned upon

... but how about coders ? oh yes, no skill should be involved here

There are pictures released with workstages all the time, there was that website "art that ISNT"

While on the code side we are moving away from expecting skill involved to doesnt matter how it is done ?

totally boring, please dont make them realtime or not, just stop :D

Well, they would know we don't want to see another keftale looking all-border plasma anymore, eventhought it's better than the one before, that's one thing for certain.

In the end: isn't it about what you can see and experience on a C64?

I found ready made libraries for python that can be used for lossy charpacking, but to call that codepron? no mate. thats not it.

its not like coderporn can only be the same effects always a bit faster.

I am against this idea that it really doesnt matter how it was done, then just do animations for youtube, what does it matter if it wasnt done for c64 ? :P Something must matter.

I dont have that idea Gunnar, but if it doesnt matter how it was done, what would you go for ?

But I do mind for these voices of "it doesnt matter how it was done". Do these guys realise that a coder's job is tenfold or more of the artists ?

Making an animation real-time, and having only 16 or 32 frames showing, is DUMB.

The idea that coders need to do alot more work seems true, I suppose.

So, as it should be, I made a demo about it.

"A-NI-MAC-JA" and "TU-NEL"

Quoting Krill

"A-NI-MAC-JA" and "TU-NEL"

Are you sure you did not mean "SKAAAN" instead of "TU-NEL"? ;)

The times someone spends an hour playing with parameters is over :)

The times someone spends an hour playing with parameters is over :)

Are there good examples where a given real-time effect could have just as well been an animation?

Quote:

Are there good examples where a given real-time effect could have just as well been an animation?

Eg lot of tunnels. Then again, those _are_ often static animation with color cycling :=)

There's still so much potential

Agreed with $various about how there's not much point doing a realtime effect then only showing as much as could have been easily preanimated.

I don't think that move-table effects can be lumped together with straight animation. =)

Faster loading time, space for more on disk could be some points.

And, for example, pulling off a nice animation that wouldn't normally fit in memory by implementing a crazy compression algorithm is still codepr0n in my book.

Still, I am usually more impressed when an effect is real time and not "just" precalculated. The goal, IMHO, is still to show off what can be done with the limited resources on the C64.

Also, fitting into a onefiler along with a heap of other stuff or while staying within size restrictions.

Congrats! The people have spoken. Animation is the future. :)