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2019-05-28 22:06

hedning

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595

Release id #178287 : Robots Rumble +6D

Discussion moved from Comments to here:

User Comment
Submitted by ZeSmasher [PM] on 28 May 2019
10 print "use the forum for this kind of discussion"
20 print "or better don't use it, same lame topic was discussed 10000 times already"
30 rem "it's a cool game! congratz!"
40 goto 10
run

User Comment
Submitted by Jazzcat [PM] on 28 May 2019
Dang, could not edit my comment.

Wanted to say that if the game coder wants to train their game that is fine by me.

E$G + HF: ignore the whiners and keep doing nice releases, if you want, add a HF intro, will make it clearer for some, if not: that's fine, you make the decision :D

Oh, and when you catch up with Adam for a beer, make sure to look me up as well! :D

User Comment
Submitted by Jazzcat [PM] on 28 May 2019
Agree with Didi, I do not recognise this as a HF crack due to no intro or tagging in place. Otherwise, nice version. Ignore the whiners otherwise.

User Comment
Submitted by E$G [PM] on 28 May 2019
@Zyron you applied a logic in your answer but as one of the "fastest trainer maker", together with Didi, Faayd and few others you will agree with me that you don't need to be the game coder to easily find at glance where the code has to be changed, the free mem where to put the selection and to link an intro. The pain comes later, intro can leave some dirty bytes and trainers can drunk the code with unexpected crash. So it's not so easy as it seems and 1 is not fair. For all the groups that spend time on c64 for the scene & own satisfaction!

@Adam: a kiss back to you and a beer when I'll visit the land downunder!

@Hedning: I can read Hokuto Force in the dox as DM is a label of and since dox & trainers are not in the other version for me it's an HF effort.
I usually vote for all the scene releases, each one can see my votes. All that is hidden keep the secret on it, until rulez won't change.

User Comment
Submitted by Dymo [PM] on 28 May 2019
Well, to me it rather feels like a deluxe-version of a game rather than a crack... or orrie with easter eggs already attached...

User Comment
Submitted by Didi [PM] on 28 May 2019
@Mods: If you finally decide to tag this release as Game entry, you may also do with Lala Prologue +4DG and Tenebra Macabre +4D because it's the same circumstances. Both entries are locked.

User Comment
Submitted by hedning [PM] on 28 May 2019
Adam: You trained the voting system? :O Damn 1337.

User Comment
Submitted by Adam [PM] on 28 May 2019
I voted ten because you're all a bunch of drama queens :)

User Comment
Submitted by hedning [PM] on 28 May 2019
E$G: "downvoting 1 is killing the scene and minimize the voter's intelligence"... Well.. Look who are automatically voting 10. ;)

User Comment
Submitted by Zyron [PM] on 28 May 2019
When it comes to cracks I give my votes according to the effort made. Training your own source, not even bothering to put an intro on it can hardly be seen as any effort at all. So what kind of votes did you expect to get for this anyway?

User Comment
Submitted by hedning [PM] on 28 May 2019
It was long ago crackers only used the SYS-line and that is not up to pair with the cracking scene of today. You know this, E$G. This release only exists to keep crackers off, and to avoid a intro in front of it, as Majikeyric hates that. Apart from that I cannot find a HF tag anywhere in the release. Not even in the SYS-line. And am I wrong guessing that the trainers are in the original as well, and just turned on here? Also: no cracker was involved in this release at all to train it. It obviously never left the hands of the game coder. I would argue releasing stuff like this is hurting the spirit of the scene (thus the votes I guess), but you already know where I stand. Zyron is right: this one should be classified as C64 Game as the game coder only made another build of it with trainers included.

User Comment
Submitted by E$G [PM] on 28 May 2019
This is not just the game but a trained version. Rulez set a crack just for a sys line changed... 1001, 9009, 1337, 2 chars, an intro, a cracked by ABC in the main game page. We don't waste our time to claim a 1st that can't be, rulez are always changed. So enjoy & play if you like it, but downvoting 1 is killing the scene and minimize the voter's intelligence, usually a secret vote. Beg to differ.

User Comment
Submitted by Zyron [PM] on 28 May 2019
This is kind of silly. If you're really going to keep doing this, at least do it properly. Hand it over to one of your crackers, link an intro, release it as proper HF cracks - if that is what you want. Right now it's just a different build of the same game made by Digital Monastery.

User Comment
Submitted by E$G [PM] on 28 May 2019
What's wrong with this crack, fully-jeweled trained one? Does the scene wish a usual poor +2? Or it's a matter of 1st release points? Anyway admins&mods can have their amusement break. They can see who is givin' fair votes ;)

User Comment
Submitted by hedning [PM] on 28 May 2019
Why HF? There is no HF-intro; nothing is changed except a trainer option turned on in the code. I would say this does not qualify as a crack in the database, really. It has nothing to do with the cracking scene or warez scene.

User Comment
Submitted by Raistlin [PM] on 28 May 2019
Didi: ok, understood. So in terms of votes on this release, we’re voting for the quality of crack rather than for the quality of the game..? That’s how it would normally work. It’s a shame as i’d like to see scene games rated fairly here...

User Comment
Submitted by iAN CooG [PM] on 28 May 2019
not the version competing at the RGCD C64 16KB Cartridge Game Development Competition 2019 because it's not even a cart version, Robots Rumble [16kb cartridge] is.

User Comment
Submitted by hedning [PM] on 28 May 2019
Didi: exactly why we changed the rules in Propa.

User Comment
Submitted by Majikeyric [PM] on 28 May 2019
TRAINER_MENU=1

User Comment
Submitted by AlexC [PM] on 28 May 2019
So this is not even a dump from crt but probably a reassembly from source?

User Comment
Submitted by Didi [PM] on 28 May 2019
@Raistlin: That was done dozens of time in the past as well.

But as a first release mag editor I would ignore this release as a "crack" because it has no intro linked to it and it seems to be common today that game creators train their games by themselves to spoil the fun for the "crackers" and first release hunters (e.g. Knight Lore, etc.). Add a HF intro and I would accept it as a "crack release" and firstie. This way it is just an extended version of the cartridge release, which adds what did not fit into the size limit.

User Comment
Submitted by Raistlin [PM] on 28 May 2019
Wait... cracking your own game? Such skullduggery might even make Onslaught look like proper crackers ;-)

... 33 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2019-05-30 12:10

E$G

Registered: Dec 2007
Posts: 786

@Hedning "Holmes", I hope you don't mind if I match your name with the greatest investigator, since you're supposing but I'm deeply sorry you're complitely on the wrong deduction.
So why bad taste games pop up, for scene fun?
The continuing saga of the 1st release brought mess. The supply can't be done to the same group (a kick in the ass to HF&MYD), you've to give your game to the friendly neighborhood (which one?, we are in good feelings with all the groups and overall most of the sceners), you've to upload to the 3 (now thanks to backup a 4th one) bbs but it happens that some are down (or the line fall down during the u/l), and so on.
If we decide to bring a "definitive" trained game to the scene is to provide first of all a better release and to avoid that another group handle it just linking an intro, but not to evirate the pleasure of doin' another version, you can do it but don't claim for points. You can't count on HF game releases to support the scene and points fight. How many we did in a year? And all this mess start with chit chat when we do it, goin' out of topic, opening a forum thread, downvoting in the name of mafia's honour!
Why don't you do like Laxity that go straight ahead or Excess that is climbing steps 2 by 2, gettin' originals & providing fast trainers. Sometime they win sometime they lose this is the real fun. The fun that all wish still supportin' the scene day by day.
At least you can judge about our way to propose our work for free but you can avoid to "impose" how we have to release it. The problem lies in the fact that this crack, can't be considered crack due to missing (HF) intro, but the problem was solved moving the trainer version to c64 game category. This is the way that mods and sceners should work with respect for the scene and themselves.
No prob for Gubbdata, friends can vote for friends, and a lot of cOOl stuff is ready to be released.

2019-05-30 12:52

Achim

Registered: Jan 2010
Posts: 28

Hard to believe this is really happening.

2019-05-30 13:27

Raistlin

Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 553

As the game has now been reclassified as "C64 game", I've changed my vote to reflect the quality of the game rather than of the "crack".

But now this makes me wonder ... have Bad Taste now accidentally scored a First Release on this..? Or did HF get the FR by uploading first to the boards?

I'm not a huge fan of the crack scene myself - but I love all the drama, it's just too funny not to get involved :-)

2019-05-30 13:35

Adam

Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 321

Quote:

@Adam: a kiss back to you and a beer when I'll visit the land downunder!

I'll be sure to keep the fridge stocked with some fine aussie beer! :)

2019-05-30 14:02

iAN CooG

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3132

Raistlin: First Release flag has been ditched for good from this database as it's just matter of drama fuel and nothing else. So it's irrelevant in here.

2019-05-30 14:18

hedning

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595

Quote: Raistlin: First Release flag has been ditched for good from this database as it's just matter of drama fuel and nothing else. So it's irrelevant in here.

+ most mags won't count fake labels.

2019-05-30 15:24

E$G

Registered: Dec 2007
Posts: 786

Quote: As the game has now been reclassified as "C64 game", I've changed my vote to reflect the quality of the game rather than of the "crack".

But now this makes me wonder ... have Bad Taste now accidentally scored a First Release on this..? Or did HF get the FR by uploading first to the boards?

I'm not a huge fan of the crack scene myself - but I love all the drama, it's just too funny not to get involved :-)

Raistlin thanX to have it thought again, I will happily share a beeR with you too! As Hedning said all fake labels are not counted for 1st rel big rush. Usually their functions is to avoid that other groups get the points and usually the release is from low / crap quality, not prestigious for a solid scene group.
This is fully accepted without moans from the whole crack scene.
Since you love drama I will count you in for a demo scene one if ever will happen.
I don't love drama too but since I speak with straight tongue, if I was wrong I admit it and I can change my idea/opinion and I hope that all the words can be useful for some improving in the system (among all the popcorns and the empty cans).

2019-05-30 15:48

hedning

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595

Quote: Raistlin thanX to have it thought again, I will happily share a beeR with you too! As Hedning said all fake labels are not counted for 1st rel big rush. Usually their functions is to avoid that other groups get the points and usually the release is from low / crap quality, not prestigious for a solid scene group.
This is fully accepted without moans from the whole crack scene.
Since you love drama I will count you in for a demo scene one if ever will happen.
I don't love drama too but since I speak with straight tongue, if I was wrong I admit it and I can change my idea/opinion and I hope that all the words can be useful for some improving in the system (among all the popcorns and the empty cans).

Fake labels can be used to release imports/cracks of good games as well, if the main group in question was to late on the ball for example. R-Type +6 is one example. And I want to point out (again) that I think Majikeyric is doing a fabulous work. Great games. This whole thing is not about the quelity of the games.

BTW. I will also change my vote on the former "cracks" as they are not defined as such anymore.

2019-05-30 20:18

Jazzcat

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044

Fake labels have been used historically to also put other groups or people down, and on releases deemed unworthy or possibly causing trouble under the group's real label.

A real shame that a fake label was brought in here post the commentary from various folk on this and other DM releases.

2019-05-30 20:35

hedning

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595

Quoting Jazzcat

Fake labels have been used historically to also put other groups or people down, and on releases deemed unworthy or possibly causing trouble under the group's real label.

A real shame that a fake label was brought in here post the commentary from various folk on this and other DM releases.

Yes, you should know, mr. Good Guy.

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