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2006-07-25 09:02

ptoing

Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 271

Hires

Some time ago I started dabbling in standard Hires mode and i find it quite enjoyable. Also people seem to like the stuff i put up on CSDB in hires mode.

This makes me wonder why not more graphicians try to use it. Imo it is pretty easy to get a hang of and quite enjoyable.

Opinions?

... 126 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2006-08-06 21:23

Hein

Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933

I think I learned quite a lot from copying. Use of colours, lighting (and the reflection of light), shadow, composition (allthough not conscious), flexed muscles and all that. I do not think technique is most important, but it does help to be able to use a richer palet of possibilities.

I've not seen much of Lazur's pictures, I presume they're of the same kind of proportions as Danny's, whom I've shared quite some times with, discussing about pixels. I remember I swapped my 100 Boris trading cards with a SF book he had. He was into bodybuilding himself, so I guess both of us found it a good deal, since I was working on a shoot m up game. His mom also thought he was the best pixeler on the planet, which is just sweet. So beware, before you say anything bad about copying Borises. :)

2006-08-06 21:28

Jetboy

Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 213

Every picture is a copy, be that copy of natural world, or author's imagination. Copying other art can teach you a lot, especialy copying it on restricted media like c64 screnmodes, teaching you how to deal wit those restriction - so you can make beter copies - beter copies of your imagination, or anything :)

Artist like Boris are copiers too. Almost all of Boris's pictures start as a photo of soe models...

2006-08-07 06:56

Helm
Account closed

Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 25

"I think I learned quite a lot from copying."

I consider this to be true. There's a huge difference between copying something bit by bit with the brain shut-down, and actually thinking why the original artist did it as he did in the first place as you copy. There's a lot to learn just by intimately looking at a piece of art for a long time, let alone during remaking it.

The difference is, when I copy for study purposes, to learn, I keep the result in my hard disk. I don't give it to compos for easy wins.

That being said, would you say Hein, that your no copy work is on the same level, and is equally enjoyed by the people that follow your artwork, as your copy stuff? I think if somebody consistently copies, besides the specialized skill-set that he will develop especially for copying (Lazur-disease), he will give his peers the illusion that he is 'that good', win compos, be considered an awesome graphician. Anywhere he then desires to go from there standing on his own two feet will seem as a step down.

"Every picture is a copy, be that copy of natural world, or author's imagination."

I'm sorry, this is dangerously generalized a statement. What you see in your imagination is not a picture you can scan and photomanip. To equate someone who takes a picture of another artist and repixels and signs it, and someone who pixels something from his imagination is asinine, I think.

"Artist like Boris are copiers too. Almost all of Boris's pictures start as a photo of soe models..."

Using reference and copying isn't the same thing. Boris had models, and he photographed them and used these photographs as reference. But if you see the photo, and the end result, you'll realize the lighting conditions, the composition, the backgrounds, the clothes, EVERYTHING but the basic physique of the model he mostly uses as a safety-net is done from imagination. And in the end, he took (his own) photos, he didn't use somebody else's art and then sign it with his own name instead of the real artist.

I'm sorry for ranting, but I find copying to be a real wound in the (/in any) scene and I think apologetics of it should be replied to. At the same time, please remember I am not attacking any of the old masters, nor trivializing their art. I respect the past, but I don't think it should bind the future.

2006-08-07 07:30

Radiant

Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639

I'll have to say that not everyone is a great artist, either. Copying other peoples images is IMO a viable solution for those who lack proper artistic skill to create their own works from scratch. People shouldn't be shut out from the craft of pixeling just because they aren't trained artists, and a lot of productions benefit greatly from well made replicas. When used in a demo, inside a new context, it can become as brand new just through that.

Though I agree somewhat that it's a bit lame to enter graphics compos with straight 1:1 conversions, one has to remember that it's called a GRAPHICS compo, not an ART compo. Thus, strictly speaking, originality should have no influence on the results. Personally I like original art a lot better than well made replicas, though, and I'd like to see more focus on art and less focus on graphics quality in the scene. That's just a wish on my behalf, however.

2006-08-07 07:36

WVL

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 886

stop talking crap and just show nice hires pics here plz! :D

2006-08-07 08:27

Sander

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 487

"Every picture is a copy, be that copy of natural world, or author's imagination."
Yeah, sure. A very philosofical statement, sure we are the curators of our own world/art, but that's different to copying a picture, without adding something to it. What makes the copied picture yours, craft? I think Helm has a clear statement about this, and anyone doing art/graphics on a less amateur level would/should agree on this.

And don't compare those c64 copies to artists like Marcel Duchamp, who even used other people's designs/object for his own art. We/you are not worthy.

"one has to remember that it's called a GRAPHICS compo, not an ART compo."
I've never seen any disclaimer about this. Plus, the criteria for the music compo (where covers are mostly not accepted) - should apply for the 'GFX' compo aswell.

And i think Boris is a crappy 'artist'. No wonder he's been doing the same shit for decades.

"Stop talking crap and just show nice hires pics here plz! :D"
Go away!

2006-08-07 14:40

Jetboy

Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 213

Quote: "Every picture is a copy, be that copy of natural world, or author's imagination."
Yeah, sure. A very philosofical statement, sure we are the curators of our own world/art, but that's different to copying a picture, without adding something to it. What makes the copied picture yours, craft? I think Helm has a clear statement about this, and anyone doing art/graphics on a less amateur level would/should agree on this.

And don't compare those c64 copies to artists like Marcel Duchamp, who even used other people's designs/object for his own art. We/you are not worthy.

"one has to remember that it's called a GRAPHICS compo, not an ART compo."
I've never seen any disclaimer about this. Plus, the criteria for the music compo (where covers are mostly not accepted) - should apply for the 'GFX' compo aswell.

And i think Boris is a crappy 'artist'. No wonder he's been doing the same shit for decades.

"Stop talking crap and just show nice hires pics here plz! :D"
Go away!

"What makes the copied picture yours, craft?"

I would ask:
"What makes picture yours?"
Is it enough if you draw it yourself?
Does the subject has to be unique?
If i draw an apple, after somebody else draw an apple - is it still consider to be copy?
How different has it to be?
Where is the line between copied and inspired?
What is the purpose of art? Is it just eye candy? Should it inspire? Should it provoke? Should it wonder you? Is it neccesary to do all or any of those to be art?

Sure, this discusion will lead us to nowhere, but the process of just walking that path is intresting...

:)

2006-08-07 15:20

Sander

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 487

Quote: "What makes the copied picture yours, craft?"

I would ask:
"What makes picture yours?"
Is it enough if you draw it yourself?
Does the subject has to be unique?
If i draw an apple, after somebody else draw an apple - is it still consider to be copy?
How different has it to be?
Where is the line between copied and inspired?
What is the purpose of art? Is it just eye candy? Should it inspire? Should it provoke? Should it wonder you? Is it neccesary to do all or any of those to be art?

Sure, this discusion will lead us to nowhere, but the process of just walking that path is intresting...

:)

This is not mathematics. None of the above is compulsory i guess, but it's not a black/white situation. And it's very personal where to draw the line. And ofcourse, there's interpretation and registration. Registration, imho, on a level of technical skill, and interpretation would bring in a personal touch. (anything from style to concept).

What you're really asking is 'Define art'. And none really can.

Here're 2 beach pictures.

http://www.walrusproductions.com/images/zhawaiianbeachlg.gif
http://www.banksy.co.uk/outdoors/palestine/images/wall/pal05.jpg

Can you draw the line? Ofcourse you can.

'Sure, this discusion will lead us to nowhere, but the process of just walking that path is intresting... :)'
Let's avoid the 'what is art' discussion, and it could actually lead somewhere.

2006-08-07 15:47

Jetboy

Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 213

"http://www.walrusproductions.com/images/zhawaiianbeachlg.gif
http://www.banksy.co.uk/outdoors/palestine/images/wall/pal05.jpg

Can you draw the line? Ofcourse you can."

No I dont. If the first one was painted by some "big name" it would be considered art, while if it was painted by some unknow guy it would be kitch, or whatever you spell it.

I like the second one, while i dont like the first one. But I also like Boris Valeho, Jullie Bell and the like, and most of those c64 copies of them too (moslty because they fit into both parts of my definition at the same time). I also like hires pictures, Ptoing is my hero for that format.

I'm a simple man and my definition of art is simple:

function bool isThatArt(object o){
if(doILikeItsLook(o) || doesItImpressMe(o)) return true;
return false;
}

Note that I can find piece of code as Artish as picture or music. Many of the people in SCDb i find as artists, though i cant say that about most of the authors of the "art" we can see at art galeries. But its very personal point of view. :)

2006-08-07 16:04

Ben
Account closed

Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 163

As a side-note: the very notion of creating art on a C64 actually is relatively new. Only just a few years ago, people dismissed art as lack of skills of doing hardcore..

Rogers already taught us that diffusion (here: of ideas, i.e. convincing the conservative majority) requires (the approval of) a peer first-mover with proven merits, not imposition by an external innovator..

I truly am a layman, and I have not done research, but I belief that people like Tommi, Sander/Marco, Mikael/Henrik and Vanja have played an important role I preparing and tenderizing the early majority to relay their norms.

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