| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5095 |
Why people listen to "classic" SIDs more ?
Vincenzo wrote:
Looks like there's no active musicians on the C64 since the early 2000's :) No offense, everyone has a different taste for music and can make a selection based on personal preference.
I don't expect answers and I don't want to start a war obviously, I'm just saying there's so much more in the "newest era" (which is already 20 years since 2000') of SID music than the old classics. Aren't you guys bored to listen to the same tunes over and over?
To be fair, this is a nice and diverse selection of tracks, I just wouldn't prefer a couple of them in my own playlist because of the above mentioned reason. |
|
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5095 |
and here is my take, its simply nostalgy, and young age, everything you experience younger, those are stronger experiences you feel those feelings first time and not the 30th when you are older. |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11391 |
For me its different, i enjoy those modern tunes much more these days. And a lot of the "classics" i cant stand anymore. But i don't listen to either much, outside of compos or party context. |
| |
TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2263 |
Maybe the 80s classic are just like "dad rock" from the perspective of people who are too young to know them from 80s. Anyway, 80s pop music as well as 80s .SID music will always be my gate to another dimension or a time travel to my youth. I'm never gonna be bored by them. If that's nostalgia, then I'm guilty as charged. However, anyone who knows anything about music and 8bit must admit, there's plenty masterpieces that date from that golden era, actually no wonder, because that was the time when millions of people had a C=64 at their home.
But I'm aware that there's much more out there. To me, worshipping the classics and enjoying 90s and younger stuff and of course keeping up to date with present compositions does not mean any contradiction. And I guess(!) Vincenzo's assumption (C64 sceners ignore/disregard current SID music in favour of listening to 80s classics all the time) really doesn't fit for a meaningully big part of the scene HERE on CSDb. Might be different when you go to mere user forums. |
| |
Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 454 |
We remember the music we learned when we were young and growing up. Old dog does not learn new SIDS. |
| |
Boogaloo
Registered: Aug 2019
Posts: 24 |
I guess I might have the "dad rock" syndrome, but I also enjoy the newer SIDs a lot. Mostly because they are so much more polished and they have a "tighter" sound, because they are mostly created for the 8580.
I have another, but similar pet peeve: I am quite annoyed that most SID nostalgia seems to revolve around game music, while there is so much better demo music out there. :-)
I assume that the the game music affection mostly come from people outside the demo scene, of course. Nevertheless, I get so bored every time I see some Youtube video with "Top 25 C64 tunes" and they are all game tunes. :-) |
| |
Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1105 |
There is one classic sid I play every once in a while: Jammin' Loose :) (Hi Boogaloo!) |
| |
Mibri
Registered: Feb 2018
Posts: 214 |
There are definitely plenty of SID tunes from the old days that are engaging musically, as Ryker says, though I'll admit that for the most part I find the old stuff interesting from a historical point of view, thinking about how and why the tunes were made rather than getting real gratification from listening to them.
I don't think this is a zero-sum situation, anyway. I'm quite sure there are plenty of SID fans who have awareness of and enthusiasm for both the old school and the contemporary - the popularity of Max Hall's monthly Chip SID Show, which mixes the old and the new, should be ample proof of that. |
| |
Boogaloo
Registered: Aug 2019
Posts: 24 |
Quoting BurglarThere is one classic sid I play every once in a while: Jammin' Loose :) (Hi Boogaloo!)
A very good choice indeed! :-D <3 |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5095 |
Jammin' Loose
ooh, I love this one too, lets give it a spin :)
edit: btw I have found Jammin' Loose in HVSC around 2000's and still picked it up, so to contradict myself, I often feel like those "classic" sids have more depth to them, its a whole story usually, beginning, middle, climatic part, and closing.
one example: https://deepsid.chordian.net/?file=/MUSICIANS/O/Ouwehand_Reyn/D.. |
| |
Ziaxx
Registered: Oct 2020
Posts: 18 |
For me it's pure nostalgia. I was active in the scene in the late 80s (and early 90s on the Amiga) and I only listen to SID music from that era. The new ones might be technically better but give me no emotional feelings. I prefer old school demos for the same reason, even though some modern demos do amaze me. |
| |
Matt
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 598 |
I listen very often to .sid music. I listen more to scene musicians than to games musicians. When I think about classic .sid musicians JCH, Mixer, Antti Hannula, Laxity come to mind.
Ask a c64 gamer and they'll tell you the opposite. With a bit of luck they might know who JCH or Laxity is, but usually their knowledge stops with Galway, Hubbard, Daglish, Gray, just to name a few.
I absolutely adore the newschool .sid musicians. There are so many gifted and talented composers out there, (too many to mention) that it feels like a privilege to discover new .sids on almost a daily basis. Loving it!
All that said, I don't mind a classic .sid composition every now and then too! |
| |
da Blondie
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 6 |
Oh, Jammin' Loose... Not to be fanboiing too much but that's a great tune (it's part of my "greatest hits of my C64-youth" list :) ), last year I tried to make a 512-byte cover of it (didn't work, too much music data). |
| |
Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 323 |
Quoting OswaldVincenzo wrote: Looks like there's no active musicians on the C64 since the early 2000's :)
nonsense.
Quote:Aren't you guys bored to listen to the same tunes over and over?
no. |
| |
Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Quote:Quote:Aren't you guys bored to listen to the same tunes over and over? no. Exactly. I'd rather listen to a good tune again than take the chance with a new one that I don't know whether will be good or not. :) |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11391 |
Thats why i have calypso.sid on repeat |
| |
wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 |
Quote: Quote:Quote:Aren't you guys bored to listen to the same tunes over and over? no. Exactly. I'd rather listen to a good tune again than take the chance with a new one that I don't know whether will be good or not. :)
That's rather sad really... if not ironic, I mean ;)
Every few months when I prepare for the next SID remix set, I go through all HVSC updates that came out since the last set I did, and the amount of new great music that I find is always staggering. And mind you, due to the sheer amount of new stuff usually I need to be grabbed by the first 10-20 seconds of a SID before I move to the next one.
I bow my head to the current amount of SID talent out there. It would be such a waste just to stick to the old overplayed game soundtracks of the 80s. |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5095 |
where are these SID remix sets? :) |
| |
Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Quoting wacekThat's rather sad really... if not ironic, I mean ;) It was halfways ironic, halfways a realization that this is what I do most of the time. But sometime I try to listen to new stuff as well. |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11391 |
Being the usual grumpy oldfart, i can really recommend those Wacek sets! Also the one Messie made for... i dont know what party it was recently :=) |
| |
CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
I occasionally listen to my own sids, thinking, need to make more. |
| |
El Jefe
Registered: Jul 2005
Posts: 81 |
Hmm, is it not just about individual preferences?
Listening to music for many years makes you find out what your favourite genres/styles/songs are and you usually stick to what you found to be pleasant before, no matter if it is real music or SID.
Some are happy with listening to the same music over and over again, others want to explore new styles. For me the most pleasant experience is a a mixture of both ...
Shocker/Onslaught |
| |
Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 323 |
Quoting wacekThat's rather sad really... if not ironic, I mean ;)
amount of new great music that I find is always staggering. And mind you, due to the sheer amount of new stuff usually I need to be grabbed by the first 10-20 seconds of a SID before I move to the next one.
yes. I'm a bit like that. I get a feeling of where something is going within that time. nice bass and melodies will keep me playing a track for eternity no matter what year it's from or how long it plays for. |
| |
wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 |
Quote: where are these SID remix sets? :)
On the Internet? ;)
But seriously, I am still thinking where to publish them. Bandcamp is not so happy about DJ sets, Mixcloud has the most idiotic approach to tracklists. Soundcloud is kinda expensive when it comes to hosting long audio files. Youtube?
One of these days I will sort it out ;)
In the meantime, grab them here:
http://arise64.pl/releases/wacek_arise_in_the_mix_at_lost_party..
http://arise64.pl/releases/wacek_of_arise_hello_arok_2017.zip
http://arise64.pl/releases/wacek_of_arise_in_the_mix_at_x2016.z..
http://arise64.pl/releases/wacek_of_arise_in_the_mix_at_x2018.z..
http://arise64.pl/releases/wacek_of_arise_in_the_mix_at_zoo2019..
http://arise64.pl/releases/wacek_of_arise_made_in_poland_at_sil..
http://arise64.pl/releases/wackee_in_the_mix_at_silesia_7.zip |
| |
wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 |
Quoting ShockerHmm, is it not just about individual preferences?
True, but there are new releases in ANY style/genre all the time. You can really find any flavor in the new stuff.
We are really leaving in a golden era of SID and not realizing it ;) |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5095 |
thanks man! :) |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11391 |
Why do i have 10 wacek sets and i am even missing one of those you linked? =D |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5095 |
Wackee... halfway into Silesia 7, dude this is massive, hope the neighbours like it too :) |
| |
Conrad
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 849 |
Quote: Wackee... halfway into Silesia 7, dude this is massive, hope the neighbours like it too :)
I can you tell for sure that the audience at the live event truly loved it. ;) ... and I still play it sometimes during long car trips. |
| |
TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2263 |
Quoting CreaMDI occasionally listen to my own sids, thinking, need to make more.
Some of these really go to 11! |
| |
Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 454 |
Thank you Wacek for the remix sets. |
| |
TLF
Registered: Mar 2019
Posts: 9 |
I have a soft spot for some game tunes from all those decades ago but I get much more enjoyment from the new music. I tend to go for a certain melodic style so not all music hits the mark for me but I am more likely to be listening to songs from SID Happens on the DeepSID website than hunting out old game tunes regularly.
I probably listen to more SID music than real music. |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11391 |
How is SID music not real? :) |
| |
Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 424 |
Quote: How is SID music not real? :)
It's not on Spotify or on the radio? *shrug* |
| |
mankeli
Registered: Oct 2010
Posts: 146 |
I think it's just that you rummage around the HVSC and play songs there that you know. It's some kind of bias that if you just look for some background music, you are more likely to click the ones you know.
I was actually annoyed by this at some point, and wrote this (LXSid) for myself.
Now I can just click the "random" button until I have something that sounds interesting. Already collected quite a list of good tunes that I didn't even know existed before.
Been planning to write a browser version of this, with some kind of light user profiles. The dream is that the ratings ("quality" and "sadness", 2-D scale) could be correlated with other people's profiles, to find even more interesting SIDs. Because the HVSC is vast! |
| |
Lord Crucifier
Registered: Feb 2004
Posts: 49 |
Discoverability is a problem. I just don't (want to) go through loose SID releases on CSDB, listening to them, skipping to the next...
That's why I like "podcasts" like Immortal C64 (http://www.akumadesigns.com/ic64/), and before that 8 Bit Mayhem (http://8bitmayhem.untergrund.net/). They string together an hour of SIDs, no talking. Makes for great background music while coding, and after a few listens I usually download the ones I really like for my own Greatest SIDs List™.
I wish there was more of that. "Best of this month's SID releases".
Checking out those Wacek compilations now! |
| |
Viralbox
Registered: Nov 2021
Posts: 15 |
I mostly listen to old SID tunes that I find while browsing on DeepSID, and I found a lot of SID tunes that I really like and are by underrated artists. To name a few: Imaic, Scan, Anvil. I also really like Hein Holt's old tunes that are in MoN and 20CC's players. Also SMC's. :) So for me it's just my taste. |
| |
Lord Crucifier
Registered: Feb 2004
Posts: 49 |
Stuff like lft's latest project Machine Yearning, is stuff I could listen to all day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74d_Ter3HcU
It hits that spot of SID bleeps (both SIDs even), technical challenges, and pleasantness to the ears. I dig it. |
| |
Bansai
Registered: Feb 2023
Posts: 49 |
Quote: Stuff like lft's latest project Machine Yearning, is stuff I could listen to all day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74d_Ter3HcU
It hits that spot of SID bleeps (both SIDs even), technical challenges, and pleasantness to the ears. I dig it.
Dual SID is fun to play with for messing with old tunes. Some examples here as I won't have anything to release for a while:
https://gtkwave.sourceforge.net/stereoify.zip
Cave of Thoughts: disassembled FAME player, invert pulse width on right channel.
Thalion: disassembled variant FAME player from the Beyond tune, invert pulse width on right channel.
ZigZag: disassembled variant Crowther v3 player, invert pulse width on right channel.
Scumball: disassembled Ruddy (Tim Follin) player, invert pulse width on right channel, also delay right channel by two frames for echo effect.
At some point I'll release source for all the players I've been disassembling and commenting. If there's not an editor for FAME, I might work on one as I like that driver's capabilities a lot. Ruddy's player is quite interesting, too, in how it can escape to writing SID registers directly from note mode with single frame/invocation accuracy. |
| |
TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2263 |
Well-known-fact: Apart from oldskewl $d418-digis/samples/synth/younameit a 8580-SID-Chip hardly makes a total mess out of a tune made for 6581. Vice versa is a totally different story, especially when filters were used in a modern tune made for 8580, chances are, it will perform poorly on 6581 (muffled/muted voices or just noise), though there are ways to tweak a little on filter reg settings of the .SID file to minimize the damage. That's why old stuff (=6581) is almost always enjoyable on Stereo-Double-Mono-Mixed-6581/8580, whereas some (! not all, but a significant amount of) 8580 might cause ear-pain...
Not sure whether this really prevents anyone from listening to new stuff as well, though (which was the complaint(?)/thesis quoted in the starting post.) |
| |
Bansai
Registered: Feb 2023
Posts: 49 |
Quote: Well-known-fact: Apart from oldskewl $d418-digis/samples/synth/younameit a 8580-SID-Chip hardly makes a total mess out of a tune made for 6581. Vice versa is a totally different story, especially when filters were used in a modern tune made for 8580, chances are, it will perform poorly on 6581 (muffled/muted voices or just noise), though there are ways to tweak a little on filter reg settings of the .SID file to minimize the damage. That's why old stuff (=6581) is almost always enjoyable on Stereo-Double-Mono-Mixed-6581/8580, whereas some (! not all, but a significant amount of) 8580 might cause ear-pain...
Not sure whether this really prevents anyone from listening to new stuff as well, though (which was the complaint(?)/thesis quoted in the starting post.)
As far as tweaking filter settings goes, I suppose I could look at the reSID source, but has anyone made filter frequency mapping tables that can make 6581 sound more 8580-like and vice-versa? I realize 6581 is a far noisier chip and every chip is different so this would be a gross approximation.
Most every player write I've seen to $D4XX regs are three byte instructions, so writes to $D415/6 could conceivable be jumper cabled in with a fixup jsr and intercepted so they could be remapped to give them a bit more of the other chip's filter characteristics. |
| |
TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2263 |
Quote:
has anyone made filter frequency mapping tables that can make 6581 sound more 8580-like and vice-versa?
Been there, tried that, never ended up with anything that would at least work in one direction for more than one tune (without the vice-versa). In the end I always ended up doing stuff manually and individually for each tune. The few coders I talked to about that said they made pretty much the same experience. |
