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E$G
Registered: Dec 2007
Posts: 786 |
The obskure 1st release world!
Dear sceners & overall 1st release site & mags editors,
few days ago we went for a 1st release proposing and old game that we improved as we usually like to do:
Zig Zag +2DG
Few hours later Hedning/GP u/l an old crack of the same game:
Zig Zag
concerning to the rulez this automatically set our release as not to be 1st one.
No matter, we enjoyed the fun in do it and the positive feedback that most of time receive. But our target was not reached.
So please I like to know:
- is it correct that if an old crack pop up after the release that until that time wasn't available in the usual dbase vaults clean his value? I'm talking about mainly csdb &gb64.
- what is the exact/correct time that an old release can be resurrected to kill a 1st release - I said this because in my 12k double side old snail mail trade floppies I remember to have some of the 1st releases of last 6 years cracked by old group/sceners, but due to my lack of time probably will be buried with me!
- if there are no rulez about this yet, to finalize the perfection of 1st release system it will be nice to make suggestion about it.
I remember to the kind readers that there are some collection that are not shared yet or will remain pri-vate as request by the suppliers. Many unreleased side belong to Mason, Hedning, the transfer team and so on.
I don't point my finger to them because I know that free time suck and after the transfer a lot more must be spent to u/l in a decent way to our csdb.
Last but not least it will be useful to have a list of the dir contents to avoid waste of time.
This is my humble opinion of course. It could also happen that after the adrenaline rush when a new game is released most of 1st release group prefere this kind of risk.
Anyway I have great expectations about more clear rulez.
ThanX
E$G/ Hokuto Force |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11114 |
This is something you should discuss on some BBS - because csdb is irrelevant to the first release nonsense.
There's no politically correct term for 'fucking idiot'. |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 512 |
what mr.Gröpaz said
hey E$G, happy birthday!!! :) |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
Hi! As the discussion is about the scene, and the releases exist here too, like it or not, this could of course be a suitable place, even if E$G also could have e-mailed the guys caring about this and asked us. Still there might be more people interested in this issue.
1. Yes. As long as a game has been cracked/released in the past (even if we haven't found the crack yet) will automatically, and logically, make the newer crack a non-1st release, thus a rerelease. That is the scary part of releasing old games. It has happened to, for example, GP (Mission on Thunderhead +DF), Triad (Gertie Goose +), Onslaught (The Last Ninja Demo) multiple times. That was just some examples. That is the risk of it. Good research is a must before releasing old games as firsties.
2. You can kill them whenever you want. Dig up these disks and get them transferred. Noone would be more happy than me. Or make someone else do it for you. Sounds like you have a treasure chest there.
3. The rules only states that the game released as a 1st release must not have been released before. It's up to the releaser to make sure it hasn't been released. Of course the editors of the first release lists will double check oldies.
90% of my collections I have transferred have been made available on csdb and as whole collections on http://scenebase.org/ and http://c64disks.hvilket.net/ . The only collections I have not shared are the ones that the owner forbids me to share the content. The Transfer Team is another question - they have a lot that is not shared, and also a lot the cannot share. It's nothing unfair about that. I don't have their stuff either.
Your release in question were available in a public archive, and was nothing I had hidden away somewhere. And it was absolutely nothing personal. When an oldie firstie pops up I do my job as a first release list editor and check the archives. Nothing more. It can happen to anyone out there, and as you saw: it happened to us to in the past.
The rules are very clear: you can't claim a first release of a already released and cracked game. That is self explanatory in my world.
And: Happy birthday! |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 512 |
I'll be as happy as you Hedning if E$G will follow your advice about point #2. :)
the day a time machine will be invented you could have the 1st release of any full-price game years before their coders were even born. ehmm... |
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E$G
Registered: Dec 2007
Posts: 786 |
@Hedning:
I did a public thread here because it's the most visited place so everyone can drop his opinion. Obviously I'm not claiming any decision must be taken.
It's not a matter of research, the few groups contending the cup of the 1st release @99% are doin' a deep search but if the previous crack sleep on a floppy or private transfer it become impossible to know it before.
Nobody forces us to provide the scene with this unreleased old stuff or take part of the 1st rel game, I personally think that this system is not perfect and fair, I mean for all the contenders.
Do you, and all the others groups involved, think will be wrong to fix a timezone line not retro-active?
Do you think that if not available here and in other sites and never u/l yet can be equal as never released before?
Again I think that friends that buy an original on ebay for 40 euro to make a 1st then discover that was already made maybe after 10 months won't make them happy!
I don't speak just for myself and my group but a new kind of rule could be applied. It will motivate more groups to partecipate and be active, risk reduced satisfaction guaranteed. Scene alive. This 1st release game make me smile, we the world united sceners invented the trainer to play faster and exploring the game, it's like now we built up an handicap way to proceed. Slow bbs, hard to reach, access limited, oldie already released risk, fast&fury release with poor work and low testing. Probably I'm gettin' old and not tasting the real deal fun. thanX for the wishes and a cold beer for you or a "calice di rosso". |
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E$G
Registered: Dec 2007
Posts: 786 |
@ZeSmasher / Hedning and all the supporters of my floppies, I will be the happiest man on earth to refresh memories and share my stuff, It will happen but I don't know when. I will provide single releases never u/l before and complete side of the floppy with dir name as it was, to fully preserve. |
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bepp
Registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 263 |
Been there, done that. Agree, it sucks when you've worked your ass off on a release, just to find out [later] that it had already been cracked.
Claiming a firstie for an oldie is like challenging other crackers/preservers: "Prove us wrong if you can".
I think the rules are very simple here: if someone has made it before, it's already out there somewhere - even if it's not on csdb yet. And it's just gonna be a matter of time until someone finds it.
To me that's just part of the game [pun intended]. There's always a risk when doing oldies. If you can't live with that risk (or expenses) then perhaps it's "safer" to focus on new games.
I think you should be proud that you've probably done a superior version than previous cracks. That's how I feel with the ones we've had "de-firstied" =) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11114 |
plot twist: did anyone bother to define what exactly constitutes a "first release" on csdb yet?
There's no politically correct term for 'fucking idiot'. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
Quote: plot twist: did anyone bother to define what exactly constitutes a "first release" on csdb yet?
There's no politically correct term for 'fucking idiot'.
It's determined by the lists. There are two at the moment. CSDb does not actively decide that. We leave it to them. But you knew that. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
E$G: So, just because your friend paid €40 the release should be counted, otherwise he bought it in vain? If you only knew how much I have spent buying originals that were already cracked/100% basic/not working. That is part of the game, and the risk.
And: As I told you: The crack in question is available in a public collection. Some better digging would have found it.
PS. It's on manikus.SB. You can find it on scenebase.org. |
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