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Twynn
Account closed
Registered: Nov 2005
Posts: 9 |
Half pixel shifting
First of all: It's good to see that the C64-scene is still alive.
I kinda left the scene about ten years ago but after accidently crossing this site I got interested a bit again. Downloaded some demo's to see what happened since I left and I was quite amazed. Not those ugly 8x8 modes anymore, but good looking demos.
Anyway, when I was watching krestage I saw this intro for each demopart which used this high-resolution text which is said to use half pixel shifting? I'm still familiar with the normal vic-tricks, but this one made me curious.
Now I wonder how this is done. Is it just a visual trick or has the vic really some possibility to do half pixel movements or something? |
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
Quote: jackasser:we mean half hires pixel
This can´t be done,right?
It will always only be a delusion?
UIFLI is amazing,but there is no $D016 involved.
Just 2 different pictures interacting really fast. |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quote: I think some examples of this Atari Mode were in the demo 'Numan' although i could be wrong. The display still does not look as good as IFLI on C64 though. The 80 pixel horizontal width would then give a virtual 160 h width after interlace and C64 could do virtual 320 width.
Still, The Atari probably has other tricks up its sleeve. Would like to see some graphic mode examples for this machine.
HIP is 160x192 yes, but with 16 lumas and interlace to mix them to 32, that's a pretty good image quality - the colour variants reduce the actual palette considerably, but add more interlaced shades.
As for other modes, the Atari can match the C64 for res in hi-res or multicolour but hasn't as good a colour depth (320x192 in two colours, 160x192 in up to five colours) unless sprites are used as underlays - the best mode to date is G2F, not quite C64 multicolour control of the colours but with access to a large proportion of the 128 colours. Some good examples here;
http://g2f.atari8.info/gallery.html |
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algorithm
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 705 |
Had a look at the pictures.. quiet good, but nowhere near as good as IFLI. and if you take into consideration other custom modes such as UFILI, XFLI, SHIFLI, Nowhere as good as C64 even though there might be more control in 'custom' colors on atari |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Well, they're not trying to *be* IFLI because the hardware smooth scroll on the A8 has half the resolution of the C64 anyway - they're trying to be multicolour with better colour depth and, if you'd done a little research, that's a major leap for the hardware considering the limits. Remember the A8 is three years older than the C64, it's hardly a fair comparison in the same way that putting a C64 up against a CPC+ isn't fair. |
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algorithm
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 705 |
Well, C64 rules anyway.. what i have seen on the Atari (imagery wise) cannot match the c64
Although the atari is still an amazing machine (similar but very different to amiga in some ways) - same developers?? I think Jay Minor was partly responsible for the hardware design?? |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Miner's team helped build the A8 series yes, that's why it has that annoying "sprites are full screen height" design like the Amiga and indeed the VCS!
The display list/DLI system is useful and bears a vague resemblance to the copper on Amiga but without the seperate CPU, it's possible to mix and match screen modes as the display draws without having to wait for rasterlines and splitting perfectly, the hardware does it all for you. Similarly, writing to wsync halts the processor until the start of the next line so a rasterbar routine is as easy as lda colours,x / sta wsync / sta colbgnd
The only down side is that it's demo scene didn't take off like the C64 so there's less examples of the improbable out there and something like G2F has only evolved recently. That should've happened ten to fifteen years ago, really...
For graphical capabilities, you might want to check out DFLI on the 264 series as well; essentially it's 8x2 pixel attribute cells on hi-res, 320x200 pixel display with a 121 colour palette. It's not been done to my knowledge, but IDFLI is possible too; IFLI with the colour changes every other scanline (two badlines on the 264 hardware) and again that 121 colour palette... |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Oh and sorry to everyone else for hijacking the thread... =-) |
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algorithm
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 705 |
I have seen examples of FLI type modes on 264 and it looks quite amazing. It's true that the C64 demo scene was more active, therefore possiblity of more inventions etc...
Not sure if there are any more vic trickery left on C64 (although heavy usage of illegal opcodes may be the only thing left) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
illegal opcodes? POLICE! |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
i think i can claim the only hand-drawn DFLI image to date... and that was a pain in the arse, since i didn't have an editor! |
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