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Monte Carlos
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 358 |
Church of C64
What is this Church of C64 thing about?
It makes me suspicious, because they come up with
a very hirarchical organisation and seem to introduce
"Pay members" again.
Monte Carlos
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
"It is better to live your life as if there are no Gods, and try to make the world a better place for your being in it. If there is no God, you have lost nothing, and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent God, He will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believe in Him."
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hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474 |
"I can hardly see how anyone ought to wish Christianity to be true; for if so the plain language of the text seems to show that the men who do not believe, and this would include my father, brother and almost all my best friends, will be everlastingly punished. And this is a damnable doctrine." - Charles Darwin
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2581 |
Quote: @bugjam:
About intolerance: I just gave my own experience about my life and what God means to me, without point my finger to anybody, I didn't judge anybody. Besides this, I've already said that we are free to have sex, use condoms and masturbate. I've never heard of anybody being killed by a thunder while masturbating because God was mad at him/her.
About Ireland: NO ONE, NOBODY can call him/herself a Christian and practice violence. Remeber what Jesus said: "Love other people as yourself" (sorry for translation which might not be 100% right). He preaced love even for his enemies. On the cross he praid for them who were crucifing him: "Father, forgive them because they don't know what their are doing!" He didn't say "Father, kill these bastards for what they are doing!!". I've already said that we are humans and the Church is made of humans who sometimes do wrong stuff. Crusades were said to be do in the name of God, I guess they were made for personal interest, for power sake. I think them people misunderstood the very roots of the Christian Church, the message of love Jesus Christ wanted to leave us. Once again I remind you he did not rebel to his enemies, Jesus even stopped his disciple Peter when he pointed the sword to the romans who were there to crucify Jesus.
About Galileo: would have been better if the Pope didn't apologize at all? I don't think so. The Church as been so far behind during the last centuries, I think we should recognize its merits, at least when they are obvious. Especially when the Church admist its mistakes. Why do you want to see only what you want about the Chruch. Ok you might not agree on many rules "imposed" (remember we are free), but how can you deny all the good things the Church did for the forgotten ones? Once again I remind you Mother Teresa's dedication to leprose people. Nobody asked you to agree on everything, nor anybody forces you to do this.
Intolerance: I still see a contradiction. If you say "I realized what god wants me to do", you imply that he wants this from everybody. Because god can have only one will, right? And by that you imply that everybody who has sex before marriage (or masturbates or uses condoms) acts against god´s will. We are not thunderstruck or -instead, and much more likely indeed- punished by members of the church -as fulfillers of god´s will on earth-, mainly because the church lost it´s power due to too many people starting to use their own brains. They lost the power, it is that simple. In other countries (like some fundamentalist muslim states) they still have it, and there the terror against people acting against "god´s will" is dreadful. See the parallels?
Violence: I think 2000 years of christian church history prove the opposite. The problem obviously does not lie in the christian religion, but in every form of earthly organisation of it.
Galileo: I cannot see any good in the pope admitting some "errors" (and at the same time commiting lots of new ones) just for the sake of preserving a bit of it´s dwindling power. And the so-called "good deeds" are done mostly for the very same reason. Good deeds helped and help to keep the status quo (with a very good position for the church, power- and moneywise), that´s it.
That does not mean that I do not think that christian individuals (!) did lots of good things, but the church? No way. |
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2581 |
Quote: "It is better to live your life as if there are no Gods, and try to make the world a better place for your being in it. If there is no God, you have lost nothing, and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent God, He will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believe in Him."
This is plainly brilliant!!! Who said that? |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quote: This is plainly brilliant!!! Who said that?
Unfortunately I don't know. Try Google. |
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yago
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 333 |
@hollowman: Jesus said that 1 regretting sinner is better then lots of true believers, when they reach heaven. (or something like that, i am not good in quoting the bible)
@bugjam: Just because ready knows what god wants from him, ready does not say that he knows what god wants from other people.
There are sure some intolerant christians, but there are also intolerant atheists (e.g. nazis).
I have not seen intolerance in this thread, and i have never met intolerance at any c64-party i ever celebrated.
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
speccy sucks! |
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aeeben
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 44 |
http://www.eroakirkosta.fi |
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2581 |
@yago:
"@bugjam: Just because ready knows what god wants from him, ready does not say that he knows what god wants from other people."
It seems not conclusive to me that "god´s will" can differ from person to person.
"There are sure some intolerant christians, but there are also intolerant atheists (e.g. nazis).
I have not seen intolerance in this thread, and i have never met intolerance at any c64-party i ever celebrated."
Don´t get me wrong: of course I let everybody have his/her belief and be happy with it. Still, talking about "god´s will" is the base for intolerance against others.
And do not mix up atheists with people replacing the mystical god/allah/jahwe or whatever with persons or things, be it the nation, race, Hitler, Stalin, Kim Jung Il or who-/whatever. The nazis are no atheists at all, nor are the (stalinistic) communists. |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
Bugjam: The biggest problem with atheists and non-believers is that they constantly mix up the (catholic) church and god. Believing in some higher entity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the church. If ready. adherese to the christian/catholic principles then it's fine with me. As long as he doesn't want to convince me that his way of living is better than mine. Which he didn't and I appreciate this. But this discussion is really getting boring now... |
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