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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
Money is not the motivator
I didn't want to hijack the other thread, but I would like to state the obvious. In our scene the money is not the major motivator* so we aren't that compatible with the concept of "1000 fans" and "kickstarting". Of course, we would like to "win" some pocket money here or there, but the reason we do is not motivated by money earning*.
I admit that concept of kickstarter works very well, but I always had mixed feelings about it it for it's potential to exploit naive nostalgia and for giving reward before actual hard work. Getting paid before work can paradoxically end in demotivation, unfulfilled expectations or even not delivering the products at all. Not everyone is able to handle the payments in advance. Anyway, I don't say there aren't great examples of ks working very well (e.g. the latest Elite Dangerous), so it's not point of my debate to doubt or discuss ks.
Point is, that money is not the motivator. It's just us. The value of the things what we do, cannot be caluclated in money. Maybe by money/time wasted, but we don't want to think about it that way. Maybe someone equipped with better vocabulary will define it more precisely, but I would say, that in the scene we still keep that thing we experienced in past. That traction which led us to take our "scene jobs" which can be named coolness factor. Unexplainable dimension, which can't be easily transformed to mainstream values.
sidenote:
*In history, there were of course few exceptions, but they usually move to other plattforms as they grow up), |
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Trap
Registered: Jul 2010
Posts: 223 |
... another way of explaining why I always score all the beautiful chicks when I wear my Bonzai t-shirt.
Je suis C64 <3
/Trap |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1101 |
that only works if ur more than just a tree |
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Slator
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 274 |
or if you have more than just a tree hanging :-D
if money was the motivator, scene would have died a long time ago :-D
how "expensive" all in all are huge demo projects?
Every moneykeeper would hang you for that bad outcome :-D
Making money out of scene is so much Amiga :D |
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DKT
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 99 |
If someone will offer me 2000 per month for coding demos I give up my current job and choose the new one ;) |
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Flavioweb
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 463 |
What about the deadline?
How much time would be available to the coder (or, rather, to the development team) to deliver the code?
I suppose here, very few, can live together with "short" deadlines ...
Money is really the least of the problems, I guess. |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quoting DKTIf someone will offer me 2000 per month for coding demos I give up my current job and choose the new one ;)
To be honest, most of us probably would... hell, i might even be tempted to consider going back to demo coding for a weekly wage... although probably not. =-)
But i agree with CreaMD; there might be a few folks about who'd consider a paid game coding gig from something like a Kickstarter campaign, but it's always going to be for the challenge rather than whatever money is being offered and that challenge has to be realistic. |
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DKT
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 99 |
TMR: it's always going to be for the challenge
Agree in 100%. Fun and fantasy first, money are for loosers :). I'm just complaining for the lack of time for C64 :( |
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PopMilo
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 146 |
Agreed... Fun and coolness first.
As it is not likely that someone will offer c64 coder enough money to quit daily job, one reason to take paid-retro related work is to use it as excuse to wife for spending so much time with Commodore and not with her :) |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
anti kickstarter people have the misconception what it actually is for.
its for funding creation or productions, that would otherwise requre a massive bank loan.
its private banking.
the project takes a loan from mostly private investors, who are then sure to get various versions and extras, of the final product. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
actually thats not true. its not a loan, its an investment and you have NO guarantee to not lose all your money (or get anything at all)
besides that, whoever comes up with the idea of paying ppl for c64 games has _no_ idea how much that would actually cost whatsoever. |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 424 |
Or how small to ROI is going to be, if any... |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 452 |
Owners expect higher returns every year. The value of the investment must increase or the dividend be good.
Kind of interesting notion is that the productivity of a person should increase exponentially all the time in order to the person being able to keep up with competition.
Not very motivating. You can do more and more all the time to earn your pay, or do the same work with less and less compensation all the time.
Yours,
- Will code Java for food |
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Carrion
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317 |
@CreaMD
To spice up the discussion a little bit I won't agree with you.
I have to go to work to earn money to feed the family, pay the bills, etc, etc.
So I dont have too much time for C64 lately.
If you give me the money I need to pay all duties + food + loans I promise to do a gfx slide show/collection every month (say, 5-8 full koala/fli pictures). and not because I want to be reach (I need just enough to survive) but because I love pixeling and I could do it for living.
makes sense? |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
what carrion said |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
cArrion, when you turn something you love, to job, it will never feel the same anymore. I would have never done this to you. That would be evil. ;-) |
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 677 |
As slator said, the top10 demos would be pretty expensive.
Considering how long it took AND who made them.
Money can only be ONE way of recognition. I would prefer a written postcard as feedback for a game rather than 1 eur :) |
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Carrion
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317 |
@CreaMD
it's true if you're at your 20's or 30's. I'm a bit older that that and want just piece of mind doing what I can do best for the rest of my life. So really, if you can assure me that I have my money till the end of my days just for pixeling I'll do pixeling for you and the scene.
so - let's discuss the details of the contract now ;)
and quoting you:
"when you turn something you love, to job, it will never feel the same anymore. I would have never done this to you. That would be evil."
been there, done that. and I can live with it ;) |
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DKT
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 99 |
Making scene stuff for money can get boring if you will do it all the time. That it is the risk, but of course why not to try it ;). |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 954 |
Because the people paying will decide what's right and what's wrong. That's why I wouldn't try it. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
cArrion, currently there is no money involved in your motivation to draw C64 things. You just do it when you feel like doing it. Right? You don't do it for me. I never force you to do anything for me. How much you would ask for drawing a pic for me? What is your hourly rate? What would be the estimate? Can I ask for corrections? Are you sure you would draw anything I ask you to draw for me on c64 for your hourly rate? Wouldn't it feel embarrassing? Would there still be that "coolness factor" factor? Nobody will give you steady job doing C64 stuff, but if you really want to feel weird, I can ask people to collect some money for a one-time job. It's similar to that kickstarter job in other thread. You will have to tell your estimate, and scene will receive your drawing. How cool that would be... hm... ;-) |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
Hein, exactly, that happens when money get involved. |
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Carrion
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317 |
Quote: cArrion, currently there is no money involved in your motivation to draw C64 things. You just do it when you feel like doing it. Right? You don't do it for me. I never force you to do anything for me. How much you would ask for drawing a pic for me? What is your hourly rate? What would be the estimate? Can I ask for corrections? Are you sure you would draw anything I ask you to draw for me on c64 for your hourly rate? Wouldn't it feel embarrassing? Would there still be that "coolness factor" factor? Nobody will give you steady job doing C64 stuff, but if you really want to feel weird, I can ask people to collect some money for a one-time job. It's similar to that kickstarter job in other thread. You will have to tell your estimate, and scene will receive your drawing. How cool that would be... hm... ;-)
these are the terms and conditions of our contract that are needed to be agreed upon ;) right?
but...
you started the discussion throwing your point of view and I threw mine...
that's it - just the discussion. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
Creamd, you're way too far with the rose tinted glasses there, I bet many guys in the heydays made games and stuff because they loved the machine.. and they also got paid.
It's said a few guys tried to push LN4 even when the c64 was already in its knees and commercially dead. what does that tell you ? |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
Carrion: Exactly. You wanted to spice up the discussion, and I love spice. I don't feel like exploring your spin on the topic further, because as I said, that would be evil. But hypthetically if we continued, I would requiro to know hourly rate before I would actually start to discuss other things.
Oswald: Doesn't that prove my point that the money isn't motivator. But if they are involved,(and are absent later) they might spoil the "coolness factor" in long term.
Do these people still enjoy doing stuff on commodore? Some might? But (I suppose) it heavily depends on how much their experience got spoiled by money involved ;-) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
going back to the topic opener, it mixes up two things:
yes in the scene money is not the main motivator, but definitly you could get people doing c64 stuff for money.
Bet LN wouldnt have happened without money, even if the guys were enthusiastic enough to try to push LN4. Did it happen without money? No. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
Money works both ways. When you throw them in the can drastically increase the motivation, when you take them out, the decline is equally drastical. |
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ChristopherJam
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1409 |
If I was to jump on board a project like that I would be doing it for the challenge, but I wouldn't be able to put aside enough time to do it unless I was being paid. So while the money wouldn't be prime motivator, it would certainly be essential.
But yes, if someone were to offer to pay me a living wage to code whatever demos I want? That would be just perfect! Where's my patron? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
i can say for sure that for my job at icomp money surely wasnt the motivator (like certain people like to point out, i could easily earn 3 times as much elsewhere) - but it damn surely is essential, i need to pay some bills too :) |
