| |
Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Clever Routines
Post your unreleased clever routines here...
|
|
| |
TWR
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 187 |
4ce2fc |
| |
TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Post your unreleased clever routines here...
So you can get famous by using them? No way Jose! |
| |
TWR
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 187 |
"When will I, will I be famous" |
| |
Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Why not just explain some RELEASED clever routines? |
| |
Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Quote: So you can get famous by using them? No way Jose!
Damn, thought it might work. ;P |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
I think a codebase could help newcomers and spark some interest in coding c64demos.
We have seen a million times ppl asking for straight irqs, multiply / division routines. etc.
So how about sharing the routines we use in a copy/paste style in most of our effects?
Seeing all the newcomers from the other scenes, I think a SITE for collecting all the c64 knowledge would help them - and the scene. This Site could host forums, docs, articles, explained code sniplets, etc, etc.
Anyone?
I'd upload most of my codes with comments, etc. if this site would exist.
|
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
Hello!
I can actually host such a thing. Perhaps Oswalds code is a good start, and I could set that up, and then other people could fill in on that. Good?
It would basically contain a way to browse through different kinds of routines in a simple way and then you could cut/paste and so on.
So.. just send me all your routines and I'll put them up!
Hmm.. maybe one could even do it as some kind of wiki or so, so people could edit the sources or something and make them better and better commented and such things.. hmhm.. will think about that. Easy stuff first! (to get it done at all) |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
what does it take to start a c64 wiki? I think there would be dozens and dozens ppl editing it. Judging on the uploading activity here.... Having a c64 (commodore?:) wiki would be awesome. It could not only serve as a code knowledge base, it would be much much more.
Frantic, nice offer! I think first lets wait what will come out of this topic:) |
| |
tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1790 |
Quote: what does it take to start a c64 wiki? I think there would be dozens and dozens ppl editing it. Judging on the uploading activity here.... Having a c64 (commodore?:) wiki would be awesome. It could not only serve as a code knowledge base, it would be much much more.
Frantic, nice offer! I think first lets wait what will come out of this topic:)
It's surprisingly easy to setup actually. Running a wikipedia-style wiki requires just apache2 + php5 + mysql and then the mediawiki php code in the www-tree somewhere. |
| |
Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
Quote: "When will I, will I be famous"
I cant answer, I cant answer that. |
| |
JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
I've setup eob.wikispaces.org. It was just a few clicks... It's free (u get ads on the right hand side if u don't pay but who cares)...
It's super simple.
/Andreas |
| |
TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Damn, thought it might work. ;P
Nope, I'm too clever (like the routines you wanted to steal from me). Guess you'll just have to come up with something yourself grasshopper! And who knows, maybe one day you will be as good @ this coding thing as me .. |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
@tlr: feel like setting one up? :) |
| |
tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1790 |
Quote: @tlr: feel like setting one up? :)
I could help set it up, but I have no time maintaining it.
Are we talking a *nix-box here? |
| |
Durandal
Registered: May 2006
Posts: 30 |
I like the idea, check this free hosting site: http://www.110mb.com/plans.php
I've been using it since last year, and is good. The only thing that is not mentioned is that the maximun size of the MySQL database is 10MB, I don't know if that will be enought for this kind of project? |
| |
Luke
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 19 |
I got little idea, how to remove front side borders
with jmp ($dc03) and leave some free cycles out of
irq routine per rasterline. Not tried yet, but waiting...
It can work :) |
| |
Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
platine - thats common, and it works fine.
|
| |
Luke
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 19 |
per rasterline? Where? |
| |
Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
as I recently started to work on some stuff I Started to collect some short sourcecodes (only few are here), avaiable here: http://www.duzozua.yoyo.pl/raf/doku.php?id=code_templates
actually it would be nice to setup a dokuwiki or such thing and let some trusted persons add working sources :) (my current website is dokuwiki pased - only apache or differentwwwserver and php 4.3.2+ required - no mysql etc , many plugins avaiable , often easy to edit them (I nedeed to make few small mods in plugins) etc...)
www.vulture.c64.org |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
Raf, now that looks like a good base for starting up. is there a way to store those code templates in a tree structure? like c64 programming-> vic -> interrupts -> stable irq. what we would really need is a wiki like engine. maybe Perff can setup and host one on the server where csdb is running? |
| |
tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1790 |
Quote: Raf, now that looks like a good base for starting up. is there a way to store those code templates in a tree structure? like c64 programming-> vic -> interrupts -> stable irq. what we would really need is a wiki like engine. maybe Perff can setup and host one on the server where csdb is running?
Like I said I can help set a mediawiki up if someone has a *nix box with bandwidth. The mediawiki basically looks like wikipedia by default.
And no ads. :)
@frantic: did you have box + bandwidth? |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
great, so we only need now hosting. |
| |
icon
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 90 |
I will look into the hosting. I have some Unix boxes and bandwith. Will just check with the one I have all this together with. BTW, this is rather cool. If someone should have spoken about this in the eightees, that person had being the laught of the year and probaly being ban for life from owning a commie. Back then every knowledge was guarded like a newborn. Nowdays it isnt much to guard anylonger i guess...I love this idea... Ill see what I can do about the hosting.... brb
/Icon |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
thats some really good news \o/ |
| |
Luke
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 19 |
I can offer hosting. 60GB hdd + 0,5Tb transf per month (100megabiit) + extra domain. |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
deal, platine will host it and tlr sets it up. anyone can help tlr ? (I am dumb for this) |
| |
icon
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 90 |
Yeah I can help out! If the Leader needs any, that will say.... |
| |
tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1790 |
Quote: Yeah I can help out! If the Leader needs any, that will say....
Absolutely! I only have time to set up the wiki software, then it needs to be maintained in some way. Maybe customize the graphics, backups and so on...
I don't have any time for that.
|
| |
icon
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 90 |
Ok, I can help out with the technical stuff and configurations. Im no designer in any way. Design and graphical must be outsourced on someone else. Sorry... But just drop me a PM if you need me to be involved with the coding (guess there is'nt need to be much of additional coding) or other "technical" stuff... |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
Are we talking about a general C64 wiki now, or the original clever routines thing (in wiki form)? If it is still restricted to the latter, I can maintain it, if ppl won't get übermad at me for not having 100% time and full attention 24 hours a day. |
| |
Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Nice to see that my unserious thread has developed into something useful. :) I would definitely upload some sources to a codebase/wiki. |
| |
Jayce
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 39 |
Quote: Are we talking about a general C64 wiki now, or the original clever routines thing (in wiki form)? If it is still restricted to the latter, I can maintain it, if ppl won't get übermad at me for not having 100% time and full attention 24 hours a day.
I think it would be better just to concentrate on the coding part instead of a global C64 knowledge base. There is already enough information to be found about C64's and the scene on the internet. However a good and centralized wiki about C64 coding, vic/sid trickery etc is very welcome i think.
I would contribute some stuff for sure, not that i have that much to contribute but i really like the idea of creating a common library of routine's and the explanation of how that routine works.
|
| |
Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Quote: Raf, now that looks like a good base for starting up. is there a way to store those code templates in a tree structure? like c64 programming-> vic -> interrupts -> stable irq. what we would really need is a wiki like engine. maybe Perff can setup and host one on the server where csdb is running?
Agree, and there should also be some meta info for each routine, like description, what assembler to use, etc.
|
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
Exactly... Some meta information would be required. (Perhaps even some simple automatic conversion between source formats, but that would be a later issue. First prio would be to get it up and running at all.) I can manage such a site without problems. In fact, I am not sure a wiki is needed for that purpose even, but some webspace and a URL would be nice if someone can supply that at least. I could do some PHP scripts for source uploading. (But I guess I could use something like http://bfp.c64.org/coding too, if ppl wouldn't mind such an URL.)
Perhaps I could just do it like this:
- A form to upload new sources. One assings them a cateogory (either an existing one, or one creates a new category) and a name and some info on what assembler to use.
- People who want to improve some of the sources can do so by getting a username/password and logging in and just modify it. (Adding comments, optimizing some code, or whatever.)
I would then moderate this site as appropriate. For example if ppl start to create senseless categories I could make it a bit more structured and so on. I don't think a forum would be needed. Perhaps the coding forum here at CSDb is more appropriate for that?
That would be a pretty good start, wouldn't it?
//FTC
|
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
(Btw.. I started to work on that site now. I guess it's best just to get it done...) |
| |
Trash
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 122 |
Quote: per rasterline? Where?
On Tour is my contrbution to where you can find a dysp using that technique..
|
| |
Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1570 |
Quote: On Tour is my contrbution to where you can find a dysp using that technique..
Yes, nice...but now the commented sourcecode + tech details because that's the site in making is all about. |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
The site currently looks like this:
http://bfp.c64.org/code64/
Feel free to try it out a little if you want to, but be aware that there is a lot of bugs in there so don't expect it to do what it is supposed to do yet. (Press the logo to get back to the file browser for now.. I'll change that of course.) I concentrated on the php coding for now, so the useability has to be worked on a lot too. However, at least you have some first stumbling steps to give feedback on now.. |
| |
JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
It looks really nice Frantic, however what I don't like about this solution is that the ability to write articles with text and code interleaved has been lost. That's why I liked the wiki approach. Of course one can write articles in the source code but it's kinda sucky. Full support for wiki articles would be nice, i.e. the complete support for bbcodes.
|
| |
Jayce
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 39 |
I have to agree with jackasser on this, why developing something new yourself when all it really takes is just installing mediawiki on a server? This surely looks nice, but forgive my rudeness, this is a typical example of design over functional use. |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
Yo dudes! Thumbs up for saying your honest opinion, and I must say I agree with you both. I thought a lot about just using some Wiki system first, and perhaps I should just do that. I have not excluded that option.
I needed to learn to code some things in php and saw this as a good occasion. That's why I did it this way for now, but that doesn't really mean I couldn't just switch to some wiki system anyway. As I said, I'll look more into that.
However, no matter what solution will be there in the end, I'll do my best to have the features people want, so don't worry. |
| |
Wisdom
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 90 |
The design is surely nice, but as it is already pointed out, a Wiki might suit this work better.
In the Wiki case, some strict guidelines for entering content will be needed, as Wikis are usually open to be abused in content organization and quality wise.
|
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
Hello again dudes..
Just to be sure.. What exactly are the features of wikis that you want? Jackasser mentioned BBcode support (which was easy to implement.. I have a working editor and parser for that here now.. not online on that site yet though). Wisdom mentioned ease to edit for anyone (and that is how it is gonna be in the end here anyway).
I looked a bit at some wiki systems but found them quite bloated for this purpose.
And again.. Design yes, but you don't need to worry that I have prio on design. Functionality is what we are after of course. |
| |
Jayce
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 39 |
the way i see this:
You can have several categories where a piece of code can belong to (1toN, for example : Graphic mode, NMI timing, SID, Drivecode etc etc)
Categories are maintained by a few people, to prevent chaos and to much categories with the same goal.
You can add a piece of code in both text with comment or file, and then users can give comments on that particular piece of code, add a screen shot. Add a revised version of that same piece of code for better interaction
BBcode can be handy, but not 100% obligatory for the function (bold, italic, img and url will do just fine i guess)
|
| |
JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
My vision is to be able to write aritcles/tutorials for a particular feature, not only comment source code.
Source code comments are nice but you can't have any form of elaborated reasoning in the source itself imo.
A classic example:
bit $dc03 ; Ack any pending CIA IRQs
bit $dd03
Sure, the comment tells us what the bit $dc03 do, but it surly doesn't tell us WHY there actually can be any pending IRQs etc.
So, Frantic, what I mean is that a wiki would let me write articles using the full wiki-support (bloated or not). However if your system also supports writing articles all is fine for me atleast. :D Keep it up! It's good!
/Andreas
|
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
I think tutorials and not just commented sources are a good idea too if people are willing to contribute that (and Jackasser obviously is..)
ok.. so multiple categories and bbcode it is. Will fix that sometime during this week. |
| |
Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
I often make a word doc with descriptions and diagrams to keep track of my ideas'n'stuff when developing a routine. And in addition there is usually some other pieces of data needed for making the routine work, like gfx and precalculated data. So basically it would be nice if it was possible to upload a zip-file full of bits'n'pieces in relation to each routine.
|
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
@cruzer: I'll think a bit more about that. Perhaps I'll include that too. But, on the other hand it is also nice if ppl take the time to put their stuff in directly readable format. Hmm.. oh well. It's a good idea nevertheless. |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
my vote goes beside using a (the) wiki engine, and some kind of mechanism preventing trolls to delete articles. The main feature shouldnt be the sourcecodes, but the articles explaining them. If a site can be set up using the wiki engine I'm all for that. |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
I think the only good way to prevent trolls from trolling on wikis is to have a good backup mechanism. They need to be quite open I guess. |
| |
tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1790 |
Mediawiki has revision control (history) on all edits by default, i.e you can always roll back to what was earlier.
You still need backup for obvious reasons like disk crashes ofcourse.
I don't know how much work it is to customize it to look cool like frantics page though. Default is just straight wikipedia with a custom logo top left. |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
Somebody put up such a wiki. No need to bother more than that. I hereby stop my attempts at doing a tailormade site for this purpose.
As a memorial: Here is the ending of one of the php code lines:
. "');\">";
PHP code can look nice sometimes, eh? :)
May the following work-in-progess-URL now rest in peace:
http://bfp.c64.org/code64/
|
| |
BAR.
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 324 |
here you could find some infos about coding..
http://www.willcox.de/intern.htm
http://www.willcox.de/reu1.htm
..sorry only in german language but a translator prg should do that..
I find it intresting to read about the bugs once done in books for our computer. Make your choice.
you found some programs here too, wilcox once did.
I like the molecule man release by him done for us. |
| |
JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
Quote: Somebody put up such a wiki. No need to bother more than that. I hereby stop my attempts at doing a tailormade site for this purpose.
As a memorial: Here is the ending of one of the php code lines:
. "');\">";
PHP code can look nice sometimes, eh? :)
May the following work-in-progess-URL now rest in peace:
http://bfp.c64.org/code64/
Come on Frasse! :D I like what you've done so far. Why not setup a wiki on your server and then you apply your nice style sheets on that wiki? Thus, we get the best from two worlds.
/Andreas |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
@jackasser: Well.. I think there are other ppl more suitable than me for that. Never dealt with MySQL-servers before (and the wikis are based on that of course) and I don't feel tempted to do so now either to be honest. I know it isn't hard, but still. Ppl are free to rip the gfx from the site I started on if they wish to do so.
There is a lightweight Wiki called WackoWiki btw, wich may be suitable in this case. |
| |
Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
DokuWiki doesn't need SQL , and is easily skinnable , see www.duzozua.yoyo.pl/lt for example of site I made using dokuwiki as CMS (server is lame so site may load long ar may need to be refreshed few times etc) .
however there are some wikis rather hard to re-skin , like wikkawakka.
www.vulture.c64.org |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
@raf: Checked it and I like it. Perhaps I'll set it up tonight. We'll see.
Yo.. |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
great \o/ |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
Ok, now I have a wiki up and running... or, rather crawling. It seems to work, but as you notice, we desperately need to put this on a proper server. If anyone is able to provide that for me, let me know asap. However, in the meantime you can use the site in crawl-speed from this URL:
http://bfp.c64.org/coding/
Enjoy!
@Icon: Did you say you were able to provide a server for this?
//FTC |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
crawling is a compliment for this speed :D someone please host it on a faster server:) Frantic thumbs up for the effort, I'll start adding articles as soon as it will run with a resonable speed:) |
| |
MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1078 |
Frasse, try sticking a caching Apache in front of it, that usually does the trick. BTW, another wiki that doesn't require SQL is Moin Moin. |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
@Mager.. thanks for the tip.
Anyway, I don't have much control over this server and don't want to bother the admin too much, so.. Another server supplied by someone would be 100% nice. |
| |
Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
great it actually works. discussion and bbcode plugins may also be useful .
www.vulture.c64.org |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
perhaps.. on the other hand I think it's better to stick to the Coding forum on CSDb for coding related issues, and for other issues.. well.. :)
Also, I think the built in editor covers what is needed quite well. Dunno what BBCode would add really, apart from being more standard. (The editor makes editing easy anyway if you ask me...) |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
who needs bbcode when there's that nice editor? forget it. |
| |
icon
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 90 |
Yes I can host this! Just PM me with the details.. ok. |
| |
Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
Quote: who needs bbcode when there's that nice editor? forget it.
okay ;-)
this was only my personal opinion :) I atually don't use BBCODE but others might be interested. on my personal webpage I removed the toolbar coz it was annoying for me to wait for "load complete" everytime I tried to edit webpage - it was somewhat slow even if I tried dokuwiki locally .
anyway , on my webpage I used few plugins , some of them may be found useful so treat it as possible 'tips' ;-)
- special template allowing to make sidebars (though I only used left sidebar)
- discussion plugin
- blog plugin (needs few other plugins too) -> allows to have 'news' page
- note plugin (customized by me to allow using it w/o any icon on left side of text)
- cache etc cleaner
- confugiration files (text)editor from admin panel
www.vulture.c64.org |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
speaking for myself the only thing I'd like is to get it up and running in a usable speed. |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
@Raf: I want to keep this quite slimmed.. Strictly "On task" so to speak. I don't want to build a complete community. CSDb has that role in my opinion. Also, the wiki concept itself works a bit like a forum I think. However, thanks for the tips! (Especially for the initial pointing to this wiki. I like it as I said.) The cache cleaner might be useful perhaps. I'll look into such matters as time passes.
@Oswald: And... thanks to the new server supplied by Icon, now we DO have NICE speed! :)
http://wikholm.dyndns.org/~cswiki/
Now I only have to get some proper URL for it I guess, but this is 100% useable in the meantime if you ask me. Not every site needs a c64.org URL etc I guess...
ENJOY! Now fill this wiki with info and report bugs and so on to me. |
| |
JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
@Frantic: Awesome! |
| |
Conrad
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 849 |
Frantic:
This is a wonderfull idea! I'm sure as time serves, this site will be choc-a-bloc of usefull ideas and tricks in c64 coding, without the mountains of irrelevant information in the way. |
| |
Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Quoting FranticNot every site needs a c64.org URL etc I guess...
What would be wrong about http://codebase.c64.org then? |
| |
Shadow
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 355 |
Great idea to do a c64 codebase Wiki! Now, come on coders (who are better than me) start adding stuff! :) |
| |
Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
I added few things to the wiki , from my small base and links to few complete programs' sourcecodes from CSDb... hope I didn't mess anything up ... I just thought it would be better to split each section of page to different namespace to have nice index and less mess at least...
www.vulture.c64.org |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
@Mace: it would be perfect of course. Would you arrange that for us? :)
Generally I think we should try to keep routines covering exactly the same purpose on the same page. That is.. an optimized version of a routine should be on the same page as the original routine. This to avoid excessively large indexes with redudant information. It also makes it easier to find all the relevant info on a given topic, not scattered over several locations.
Also, I think you people should indicate in some way:
1. who added what (in order to help resolving potential problems and so on.)
2. The source of the routine (where it comes from, who did it)
I am talking in a authoritive manner now, because I think it may be helpful to state some general guidelines so people work in the same direction, so to speak. But please just give me feedback if you believe things should be some way different. This site belongs to us all.
@Shadow: Thanks! I am currently thinking of whether the concept should be extended to Amiga/SNES/Gameboy/whatever hacking (on separate sites). It would be easy to setup now once I have it working. Will try the c64 version for a while first though. |
| |
Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
Quote:
@Mace: it would be perfect of course. Would you arrange that for us? :)
someone have to ask Slaygon (if I remeber correctly he is responsible for c64.org domain)
www.vulture.c64.org |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
Perhaps Icon can do that, as I guess it has to be coordinated somehow? |
| |
Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Managed to add a routine \o/ ... the lower part of it doesn't show up in Firefox though... and the syntax highlighting seems a bit odd. I would turn it off. |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
hooray, this is awesome :) and people already are contributing \o/ hope this site might bring new coders, or improve existing ones :) Some explanations on how the routines works wont hurt tho imho ;) with building blocks like multiply, division, 3d rotations, drawing lines, eorfilling, stable rasters, etc etc many ppl will be able to do some exiting demos :) |
| |
icon
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 90 |
@frantic: Yeah, I can talk to Slayon and fix that! codebase.c64.org right?! |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
@icon: Any sane url is fine for me. codebase sounds good! Thanks!
I actually renamed the site now to "C64 codebase wiki". I think code64 was a bit lame. Everything for the better, I guess. :)
@cruzer: thanks! Yes, the built in asm highlighting is a bit fucked I guess. Better just use <code> instead of <code asm>. That gives straight code without highlighting. I might fix that. Will see if I can patch the editor too so TAB don't jump out of the component, but rather inserts a tab char. Nice if editing the code I guess. But.. All such minor details are a bit in the future right now. Will mostly focus on contents first I guess. |
| |
Durandal
Registered: May 2006
Posts: 30 |
GREAT! I've added a little routine too.
I think the folded plugin could be usefull in the future if the index page grows too big. |
| |
tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1790 |
@frantic: Looks great, good job! |
| |
Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1570 |
I love it!
Thanx.
I hope there will be some moderation because it's just a matter of time when inc $d020 jmp *-3 stuff will be added...
|
| |
Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1570 |
Quote: I love it!
Thanx.
I hope there will be some moderation because it's just a matter of time when inc $d020 jmp *-3 stuff will be added...
And besides the moderation issue, if you look at for instance the fli-fpp-scroller sourcecode (http://wikholm.dyndns.org/~cswiki/doku.php?id=fli-fpp-scroller) you can see that some binary includes are used.
These are missing which makes the example useless because it ain't gonna work this way.
Ofcourse, somebody with coding experience will get this to work but we're all lazy. Just admit it :)
What I'm trying to say here is that adding articles is more than copy/paste into the wiki alone. |
| |
Jayce
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 39 |
Indeed, to make this work the additional data files are almost obligatory to make some pieces of code actually work :) |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
Frantic, I think only registered users should be able to edit, so we know who did that. In this case we could tell him to upload the binaries that are missing. |
| |
Luke
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 19 |
Quote: On Tour is my contrbution to where you can find a dysp using that technique..
I saw that one...
Sry man, but you don't understand :)
In your production you have no free cycles.
For explain example:
sei
lda #$35
sta $01
lda #$02
sta $fffe
lda #$dc
sta $ffff ;$dc02 as irq vector
lda #$4c
sta $dc02
lda #$00
sta $dc03 ; jmp $xx00
lda #62
sta $dc04
lda #0
sta $dc05
lda #$7f
sta $dc0d
lda $dc0d
lda #$81
sta $dc0d
lda #$0b
sta $d011
bit $d011
bpl *-3
lda #$01
sta $dc0e
lda $dc0d
cli
(routine)
...and now here from $2c00-$3900 per $100 memory bytes
somth like this:
*=$3900
nop
nop
bit $dc0d
dec $d020
inc $d020
rti
*=$3800
bit $ea
bit $dc0d
dec $d020
inc $d020
rti
....
....
....
....
*=2x00 (last one)
nop
dec $d020
inc $d020
bit $dc0d
rti
This is only idea, first need to synchronize irq with
39th column of chars.
It working, but need a NMI irq to stop it in $yy raster line, bcoz timer is continous.
After calculating with 2 sprites takes near 15-23 free
cycles out of irq routine per rasterrline.
|
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
platine, this was already done by ninja, and maybe by others too, you can see it for example here: Real the every 2nd line fli screens (tunel and julia) uses this trick to leave cycles free :) |
| |
JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
I use a similar technique, however a bit developed in The Wild Bunch 4x4 tunnel part with sprite multiplexing. (Yes HCL, I know the multiplexer is a bit bad but let's not blame the actual technique, just blame my lazyness)
Problem with using this technique together with sprites and FLI-generation is that you must stabalize BEFORE the sprite fetches, but has to do the FLI AFTER the sprite fetches. Thus you have a variable amount of cycles between stabalization point and the $d011 write. However, since you're multiplexing and since it's only a matter every 4th line, the multiplexer can easily setup a table with 50 entiries telling the raster code how much to stall each FLI-line.
And since I always had 3x2 sprites I knew that I only had 0,2,4,6 or 8 sprites per line => less different timing routines. A somewhat bigger concern was that I used NMI toghether with IRQs. Timer IRQs are triggered differently using old and new CIA, which is a tiny problem. NMIs interrupting the IRQs setup phase however is a slightly bigger problem since the timing in VICE is b0rked in comparison to the real thing. So all in all I had to had quite many different timing routines to cover all cases.
|
| |
DCMP
Account closed
Registered: May 2003
Posts: 59 |
Thanks guys, for this initiative!
This can prove to be quite motivational. |
| |
Copyfault
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 478 |
Quote: platine, this was already done by ninja, and maybe by others too, you can see it for example here: Real the every 2nd line fli screens (tunel and julia) uses this trick to leave cycles free :)
Oswald, we shouldn't discourage Platine to tell such ideas, should we ;)? You're right, it's been done'n'used before, but nevertheless the idea is really great! Sooner or later it _will_ be added to the codebase-wiki!
Thank you guys, esp. Cruzer, Frantic and Icon, for such a brilliant creation; the codebase-wiki for c64 routines is pure cyberheaven for me;p
CF |
| |
Trash
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 122 |
@Platine: Now I understand what you were aiming at, and no my routine dont do just that.. |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
Thanks guys. It was inspiring to set this up because of all the positive feedback.
Now go add a lot of more stuff in there! I know you have zillions of sourcecodes lying around on your harddrives!
I think we should strike our hammers while the iron is hot, so to speak. ;)
/FTC |
| |
Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
yeah , looks like proper time to start adding stuff as first steps were done and wiki's construction/rules seem to be quite stable and useful now :)
www.vulture.c64.org |
| |
iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3197 |
http://wikholm.dyndns.org/~cswiki/
already down?
edit: nevermind, now is ok |
| |
Luke
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 19 |
I got other idea, but don't know is it works at all c-64 version.
;crazy cycler
*=$0810
sei
ldx #$07
lda tbdet,x
sta $0400,x
dex
bpl *-7
jsr wait
wi1 lda #$34
cmp $d012
bne *-3
nop
nop
nop
nop
nop
lda $d800
lsr
lsr
lsr
lsr
tax
lda tbdec,x
lsr
sta wi5+1
bcc *+2
clc
wi5 bcc *
nop
nop
nop
nop
...........
...........
wait bit $d011
bpl *-3
bit $d011
bmi *-3
rts
tbdec .byte $00,$00,$00,$01,$00,$00
.byte $02,$03,$04,$05,$00,$00
.byte $06
tbdet .byte $01,$09,$0c,$00,$4d,$cd
.byte $5f,$5c
This is a vic-cpu synchronizer using $d800 old nybble.
Make sure $17 is in $d018 + %xxxxxx11 in $dd00 , $1b in $d011. I heard from somebody it's not working on all c-64 versions. I think it's clever routine :)
|
| |
Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
The wiki looks nice.
I'll dig up some basic routines I wrote in the past... but don't hold your breath ;-) |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
By the way.. I think, apart from effect routines and so on it could be useful for newcomers to C64 coding to have articles about what stuff need to be initialized in various ways in order to get going. You know.. setting the bits in $01, initializing the VIC, setting up interrupts of various kinds (not necessarily stable ones) and so on. Such an article would get a lot of people going in no time I think. If anyone feel obliged to start such an article, please feel free. I might start it myself some day soon if noone else does it.
However, I think that kind of article would be a perfect one for collaborative editing, rather than the single author articles that have appeared on the wiki so far.
In general I think this wiki should hold both articles for the expert as well as the complete beginner. |
| |
Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 686 |
lda $d00d
and $babe
adc $b00b
lda $f00d
cmp $2bad
bne $2bed
lda $b007
sta $a555
rti
$2bed
php
plp
php
plp
php
plp
rol
ror
rol
ror
brk
php
plp
php
plp
sec
rts
|
| |
Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
@Fungus: Now that's a clever routine :D |
| |
enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 677 |
dunno who used carry for it first but I like it.
A get_byte from tapeloader:
lda #$01
sta $bd
loop:
jsr getbit
rol $bd
bcc loop
lda $bd
rts
|
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
Enthusi.. small and quite simple snippet, but I actually added it to the wiki, if you don't mind. I guess someone out there will feel inspired by it some day. ;)
http://wikholm.dyndns.org/~cswiki/doku.php?id=get_byte_from_tap.. |
| |
enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 677 |
yeah, I intended to enhance its tape-area anyway :)
Once I find the time |
| |
Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 686 |
tape routines eh
I can add a ream of stuff there :)
Entire loaders+masterers. Is that the kind of thing that's wanted? :)
|
| |
Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1570 |
Quote: dunno who used carry for it first but I like it.
A get_byte from tapeloader:
lda #$01
sta $bd
loop:
jsr getbit
rol $bd
bcc loop
lda $bd
rts
Nice to see this added to the wiki but jsr getbit? |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
Fungus: Everything is wanted. Short routines explaining a single coding concept, larger routines showing how to implement some something/effect, and even whole programs.
The code do not have to be expclicitly demo related in any way. The only thing that matters is that it is code for the C64.
It is of course nice if the code is commented and so on, but to be honest, I think it is better if people just add what they have rather than adding nothing, so just go ahead and add what you are able to share. It is always useful to look at others's code. If someone thinks something is lacking in some source/article, they can just improve on that themselves of course.. wiki style..
...and articles and tutorials are welcome too of course, if anyone happens to feel like that.
|
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
nice to see cruzer adding full effects, but with vague explanations and _missing data files_ it doesnt looks like those will help ppl who wants to learn. :P |
| |
enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 677 |
@scout, yeah. Non-irq loaders use a mere busyloop via BIT to wait for cas-read-event and then decide via timer.
@fungus: please do!! So much work you did should be made public IMHO |
| |
Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Quoting FranticIt is of course nice if the code is commented and so on, but to be honest, I think it is better if people just add what they have rather than adding nothing (...)
This is right in one way, but also wrong in the other.
It might lead to a heap of code that hardly anyone understands, so having the comments or at least the addition of it over time, would greatly increase the quality of the website.
Luckily it is wiki, so all changes can be done later on too. |
| |
Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
@Oswald: It's sources for released demo parts, so just run the demo to get the binaries. And yes, I know it's spaghetti code, but I agree with Frantic that anything is better than nothing. I might improve the code quality, write better explainations, and upload the binaries separately when I get time. This was just added quickly for a start.
|
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
@Mace: Yeah.. Well, I do agree in a sense. In addition, I think the first added entries serves as examples for what will be added later, so if nobody cares to add complete stuff, the probability for future additions to be complete with comments (and include files where appropriate) will probably be lower.
So... Whenever you ppl can, please add the required files. It doesn't really ammount to much more than zipping your code dir for the current routine and add that as a download link on the bottom of the page or so.
About the commenthing issue specifically: I agree in theory, but if I know "people" correctly, they simply don't have the time to comment a lot if they/him/she are/is not already the kind of coder(s) that do comment their code. Thus, in practice, I think it is best just to add what you got.
The most important issue, in my opinion, is to sort stuff in a good way on the main page, so it will at least be easy to find what is there. |
| |
Jayce
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 39 |
Wooow.. i made my first contribution :) (http://wikholm.dyndns.org/~cswiki/doku.php?id=flexloader_3.0)
But i have to agree with frantic, adding your data is obligatory. Or at least i think it should be, and i personally would recommend to add a option to the wiki to upload/attach a zip file to a article to prevent data from going lost if a contributer switches hosting provider.
|
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
@Jayce: Thanks for the contribution! You can upload files right now. The wiki came with a rather unintuitive icon for this purpose in the edit toolbar though. The icon depicts something like a framed painting. Will change that icon to something better when I have the time.
Just upload zip-files or whatever. There is an example of an uploaded file on the "Playground" section of the wiki:
http://wikholm.dyndns.org/~cswiki/doku.php?id=playground:playgr..
Also, I added <code> and </code> tags around your source (and also added a note about that in the "quick howto"). |
| |
Jayce
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 39 |
the code tag is a nice feature!..
|
| |
TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Jayce goddamit, that source is (c) Focus (look it up in your contract), I was planning to sell it! |
| |
Jayce
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 39 |
sttt... it's a fake source... It secretly opens port 214 on the serial device and send all their code to us so we can add some design to it, release it under our own label!
*insert diabolical laughter here*
|
| |
TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
/me joins Jayce in the diabolic laughter |
| |
Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
dokuwiki supports "media" so.. if registration would work then ppl would upload stuff to media and then link to it - just all internal stuff... I wonder wht I couldn't register , I tried to do that twice.
www.vulture.c64.org |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
@Raf: According to the userlog on the admin pages you ARE registered (twice, yes). What kind of problems did you have? Didn't you get the password mails or something?
Also, everyone is permitted to upload files. Even non registered users. (At least the wiki config says so...) |
| |
Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
@Frantic: yes, I haven't received those mails with passwords, so if you can manually set a password for me and send me it I'd be glad :)
and I have to play with that anonymous upload , I just founf that you made a 'tutorial' in the playground/sandbox
www.vulture.c64.org |
| |
Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 686 |
I gave frantic a load of stuff today. It has more to with my area of expertise. But your welcome to check it out when it is posted. There will be several tape loader disassemblies with full comments. And a load of my tape transfers with full source code.
I will post some other more demo related things when I can locate them. I wrote a couple of generic multiplexers awhile back and a generic vsp routine.
@TDJ Feel free to take them and add some design and release them :D
|
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
Frantic, I have tried to add a sourcecode but failed miserably :D
#1, I have straightly copyed the code from a seq which was saved from c64 tass, linebreaks are fucked up, not that I didnt knew the linebreaks are not compatible, but the wincommander txt viewer could handle it so I thought its ok.
#2, I cannot edit / preview the page since the site claims I have locked it for editing, now I'm locked out, and cant fix that garbage. |
| |
TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Fungus, consider your tape loaders stylized! |
| |
hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474 |
pet2asc in the tass package http://noname.c64.org/csdb/release/download.php?id=892 is useful when converting sourcecodes from tass |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
@Oswald: Does adding <code> ...and </code> tags around the code snippets solve problem #1 (That is how it should be done)? Concerning problem #2, does it work now, or is it still locked for you? (Didn't hear anyone else having this problem.)
By the way, have someone managed to register on the wiki, or does everyone experience the problem that Raf reported (getting no confirmation email)? |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
hollow, frantic thx.
the code tags help, but I still have problems whith getting a preview. I have just lost ~10 minutes of typing, because pressing the preview button caused the wiki telling my that it is locked...
I'm behind a firewall, but cookies are enabled afair. |
| |
Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
that 'locked' problem is strange as page is locked when someone else is editing it , so it shouldn't bad you from editing page you locked ;-) BTW if you moved back then your modifications should be in place again.
@Frantic: I manged to login , thank-you .
BTW it was nice that someone thought about introducing namespaces for cleaning up the stuff but that made sourcecodes inaccessible - is someone currently working on repairing it?
www.vulture.c64.org |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
@Raf: I just moved stuff to different namespaces/subpages yes..
|
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
Frantic, having both Tutorial and Articles section is ambiguous. Whats the difference on an article about stable timing and a tutorial on stable timing fex. ? :) I think we should only have tuts. |
| |
JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
If we're going to split hairs I would think that a tutorial is a kind of article explaining how to mold together several different techniques into f.e. a demo part where as a plain article is a document explaining one feature quite in depth.
But I would be totally OK with only having tutorials... ;) |
| |
Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
hmm seeing the world record stuffs makes me think we should move our math/timing stuff into tuts, and let articles be a place for that kind of general writings. |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
Yoyo!
I agree that the division between tutorials and articles might perhaps be a rather diffuse one and that it would be easier just to have them together. So, yes, I'll move them together on the same page.
Also remember that you can link to the same page from several locations in case you cannot decide if you think something should be in category A or category B. I don't think you should worry too much about that stuff at this point in time. Go ahead and add content and suitable structures to organize the data will emerge and can be taken care of at that point. |
| |
Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
Btw.. In case you wonder. I will try to add some sideborder navigation of the site too. I find it a bit hard to navigate back and forth on the site right now. Certainly not the strong part of this wiki package... |
