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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
The voting system is completely retarded
I just can't wrap my head around this unmitigated, pure crap we use for voting. Here's a situation where I actually have to vote waaaay lower than it deserves, in order to increase a release's rating.
This is simply ridiculous.
"Hey, this release is really cool, I'll give it a tenner."
"WTF, the rating got lower?!? Ok, maybe it counts as an illicit upvote and it is filtered with some clever algorythm, let's go with 9 then."
"Damn, now it's way lower than it would be without my vote. Maybe an 8 will help?"
"Nah, this is getting worse, but let's see what happens if I vote with a 7."
"Shit, still no good, I'll jump to an ever lower number just for the sake of experiencing more of this shit."
"Oh great, now we're getting somewhere, one more try."
"YEY! I love this release, so it will get a 6 from me." |
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Mr.Ammo
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 228 |
You will probably also get an 8.7 when you vote a 2
I did a test a few days ago and these are my findings:
- when i vote a 5 it the total is 7.9
- when I vote a 4 the total is 8.4
- when I vote a 3 the total is 8.5
- when I vote a 2 it's 8.8.
- when I vote a 1 it goes down to 8.5.
- When I vote a 7 the result is also 8.4, just like when I vote a 4.
This release was my victim for testing: http://csdb.dk/votestatistics.php?type=release&id=163236 |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
The rating is 9 after a 2 vote. I can't fathom what's happening here. Even a random number generator would make more sense than this. |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3187 |
I'd ask my money back |
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lft
Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 369 |
In all likelihood, somebody just forgot to clear the decimal flag. |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 447 |
Does this mean that the "anonymous down voter" is actually a hero? |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 727 |
rotflmao this voting system is pure weirdo. I'll remove all my votes and never vote again!!
Darn, i already did that years ago. How can i make a statement now? |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4723 |
I believe this id affected by how many votes there are in total. In Jailbirds example there are only 6 votes. I believe there is some kind of downvote/upvote shield involved. But what do I know? Let Perff explain again ( I think he did, many times). |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
I simply adore how Jailbabe gets back to this issue periodically xD I sense that voting system follows some permutative behavioural patterns redefining integrity of linear structure that governs the subatomic surrounding of float point values. |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 498 |
Don't wanna piss anybody off, but JB, you're one of the top graphicians in the C64 scene. Dat booze design group you're a member of got some kind of "legendary" status, - EOD will be for all the 100-500 people around the globe who actually care about C64 seen as a "masterpiece" at least for the next couple of years. Why the heck do you feel the need to discuss CSDb voting algorithms? I don't get it. You're a great artist and tbh almost everybody - if not literally everybody still involved in this scene is at least a very decent artist / coder / whatever. Even when someone does a crap-release everyone already knows: a yeah, it's xxx probably drunk, but we all know he / she / it can do better. And if he / she / it doesn't do better, it's probably due to some facts like job, girlfriend/wife/boyfriend/husband, child(ren). So what? OMG you could "downvote" an entry with 6 votes to 8.7 (!)... I hope, we're all old enough to deal with that ;-) |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quoting HedningI believe this id affected by how many votes there are in total. In Jailbirds example there are only 6 votes. I believe there is some kind of downvote/upvote shield involved. But what do I know? Let Perff explain again ( I think he did, many times).
Yeah, he explained it, and basically this algorithm only works if there is a really huge number of votes on a certain product. Which is quite rare here, as only the most popular stuff get enough ratings to actually show an (more or less) equitable result.
@Jammah & Spider: I come back to this topic because I think that the current voting system is utterly broken and it repeatedly fucks up stuff here. So someone should either fix it or ditch it. It's controversial, it's often demotivating and it regularly upsets people - whilst it doesn't even works as intended, at all. And it's not just me who is noticing this, there are numerous of angry posts on the forum which are dealing with the negative aspects of the current system. And this is going on for years and years and years, literally from the beginning of CSDb. No one seems to care. There were some half-assed tries to fix it, but that was about it...
Spider, it's not about me. It doesn't affects my artistic integrity per se, really. I can't remember the last time was I "downvoted", and the ratings I get are absolutely fair, more often even unrealistically generous.
Anyhow, I like to vote (I stand relatively high on the most active voters list, and I was always hoping that people will start to vote more and we'll sooner or later get objective charts), I'd like to see some legitimate compos here and I'd be interested in much more reasonable charts... Still, if it was up to me, I'd toss out the whole of it because it's totally meaningless in its present state.
But indeed, this dispute is almost two decades old, and nothing has changed. And I'm sure nothing ever will. So yeah, I neither do know why I am wasting my time here. |
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The Phantom
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 360 |
I recall uploading a bunch of FOE demos some years ago, and in the "top group" section, FOE was listed as #3, with a 9.0 rating. This was back in 2006.
I took a snapshot when I noticed it, but have no idea how to upload a photo here. If you want to see that image, just ask and I can email it to you.
Here's a link to the image :)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Wtkd0uN5wy8qI4j_sSSFxfFVL1qjr.. |
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GH
Registered: Sep 2014
Posts: 77 |
Haha anonymous voting cowards are Heros these days...
To me anonymous votes shouldn't be counted at all..
Secondly, we can also have a good laugh when having a look at all the creative fake name accounts on here... |
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Snabel
Registered: Aug 2015
Posts: 24 |
Fwiw i am with Mr. Bird on this one. What is the meaning of having downvote safety features if it breaks the voting system anyways? Just let ppl vote, calculate average and have a cold beer.
We all know when namevoting or downvoting is happening. It makes no sense to hide that fact from the mob, and especially not by obfuscating the result with obscene algorithms :D |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3050 |
Yes I sometimes remove my vote, when it decreases the score. I suppose, this is not an intended user behaviour.
My suggestions: 1. Only releases with 50 and more votes should have calculated rating displayed, or 2. the recount of new rating should be made every 5 votes (so results of manipulation won't be visible immediately and thus giving less chances for manipulator to manipulate ;-). Or both. 3. The releases with less than 50 votes should have only Who vote what displayed. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
@Creamonimo: a quite huge percent of the releases or people wouldn't show up on the charts in that case.
Maybe it would work on the demo charts, but still, 50 is a very high number which is usually achieved during months, if not years.
Also, this would render impossible all those small internal compos which rely on CSDb's ratings this or another way.
The current system was an absolutely unfit answer to the rampart downvoting issue we had in the early days of this site, and it is based on IMDb, where it works because they have hundreds and thousands of votes for even the most trivial "releases". Here, a release or a person will get more than 30-40 votes only if they stand out from the crowd in some way, e. g. if they're particularly popular/good/bad/controversial.
We have about 0-15 votes for most of the stuff here, where a distributed rating system is overambitious and doesn't solve anything at all. It even makes things worse, as it's displaying inaccurate and confusing figures. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
so you ABuse the voting system to increase the release's rating and not to display your opinion about it. unanonymous upvota coward!
btw whats so super cool in this release ? removing every 2nd column from the system front is super easy. then claiming its a new screenmode, when it isnt? have you tried to run it and check what it really does? :) |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quoting Oswaldso you ABuse the voting system to increase the release's rating and not to display your opinion about it. unanonymous upvota coward! Calm your tits, Oswald. I just illustrated the stupidity of the voting system. Changed back my vote to 10 after that.
Quoting Oswaldbtw whats so super cool in this release ? removing every 2nd column from the system front is super easy. then claiming its a new screenmode, when it isnt? have you tried to run it and check what it really does? :) I just like it, it's my favorite from the compo. I know shit about coding, it's just appealing to me, the cute little flickering fonts increased my dopamine level and that's about it. I'm pretty sure that you have high opinion of some graphics which were easier to make than pushing out a fart in the wind. We all have different perspectives depending on our frames of reference. And this topic isn't about the release anyway. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
so as a graphic artist your favourite is the one which removes every 2nd column, and displays that with a 25hz flicker ? I'm shockad man ! :D |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 248 |
remove the anonymous voting and improve the system. cant be sooo difficult ;) |
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Mr.Ammo
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 228 |
Quoting קєคςє๓คкєгremove the anonymous voting and improve the system. cant be sooo difficult ;)
Please look at it this way: Non-anonymous voting encourages the average person to vote what is socially desirable / acceptable. People need to be given the freedom to vote whatever they want without the possibility of repercussions.
Dishonesty (also in voting) is almost always caused by a conflict of interest. |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
Quote: Quoting קєคςє๓คкєгremove the anonymous voting and improve the system. cant be sooo difficult ;)
Please look at it this way: Non-anonymous voting encourages the average person to vote what is socially desirable / acceptable. People need to be given the freedom to vote whatever they want without the possibility of repercussions.
Dishonesty (also in voting) is almost always caused by a conflict of interest.
This!
To really solve the problem just vote more. |
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Joe
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 226 |
Vote more! |
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GH
Registered: Sep 2014
Posts: 77 |
People can vote up or down whatever they want, just not
anonymous IMH
But sure~ Courage The Cowardly Dog ;) |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quote:To really solve the problem just vote more. The same exact thing was said when we started to encounter this issue. "Just vote more, it will get better"
Well, more than 15 years has passed, and nothing has changed, at all.
But yeah, maybe this problem will solve itself 30 years from now once we're all six feet under the ground so no one is left to complain. |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Trying to solve the problem with downvoting by implementing some clever, secret algorithm probably creates more problems than it solves. Guess a better solution would be to make all votes public, so the downvoters were exposed. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
I neither do think that it would be a good idea to fully eliminate anonymous voting. I have personal experience when I was seriously threatened by someone who was very dissatisfied with a lower vote of mine. I couldn't care less, but I can imagine that it could be a really distressing experience for some, so they'd rather keep their votes anonymous in order to avoid these situations.
But how about:
1. Not allowing to comment on a release unless a vote is submitted (just like on Pouet), this would encourage voting.
2. Anonymous voters wouldn't be allowed to rate too high or too low values (this was suggested by TDJ years ago), this would eliminate anonymous up- and downvoting.
Not the perfect solutions, but they would definitely improve the system a bit. |
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Mr.Ammo
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 228 |
Number of votes per score based on 217 releases released in recent stand alone compo's (including the he-man and font compo).
Total number of votes: 3,490 of which 2,010 were anonymous and 1,480 were not.
Score Public Votes Anonymous Votes All Votes
----- ------------ ----------------- ---------
10 38.92% 27.51% 32.35%
9 27.64% 19.20% 22.78%
8 17.43% 23.28% 20.80%
7 8.45% 17.51% 13.67%
6 3.58% 6.92% 5.50%
5 1.42% 2.24% 1.89%
4 0.61% 0.90% 0.77%
3 0.68% 1.00% 0.86%
2 0.81% 0.55% 0.66%
1 0.47% 0.90% 0.72%
If you look at the data. Do you really think there's a problem with down voting? Or anonymous voting? Is it likely that public voters have a bias towards up voting or voting what is socially desired? |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 447 |
No algorithms. Just votes. No averages either, there is no average. No one voted average. It is just imaginary number and bad one when used in decision making. Once the number of votes is large enough the vote distribution starts making sense.
There will be downvoters and there will be popular voters and there will be authors disappointed by the votes. Grow up. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quoting Mr AmmoDo you really think there's a problem with down voting? On a technical level, not really. On a social scope, absolutely. It's toxic. It's more than obvious than an anonymous downvote is almost always an effortless, malevolent passive aggressive personal attack against another person (unless a very low vote is well earned). That could be legitimately upsetting for those who feel targeted.
I don't think we have a problem with honesty. We often criticize each other's work and apart from some extreme cases, the commentaries are usually constructive, and more or less perceived with appreciation or with neutral acceptance. No one here was ever ostracized just from having a more distinctive opinion than the majority. |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
How about banning downvoting by only allowing votes from let's say 8-10? But then 8 will of course be considered a downvote. Then only allow 10's. Everyone will feel good, regardless of their effort. |
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GH
Registered: Sep 2014
Posts: 77 |
Exactly, but make all votes public :D |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3050 |
As far as downvoting is concerned. I don't exposing all voters will miraculously make all downvotes disappear. And knowing, who downvoted doesn't make it much better (as mod I can see all votes). I have special place for my downvoters at the tip of my middlefinger but that's all I can do about it in cases when I don't even know who they are and where the hell they came from with their attitude. |
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Mr.Ammo
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 228 |
Quoting GH/MSL/ToondichtersExactly, but make all votes public :D
All votes are already public. But the voters remain anonymous, like it should be. You seem to lean towards tyranny. |
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2925 |
Linus posted this in the $11 music compo thread, just as fitting here ...
Quote:I vote anonymously because I just don't need even more drama in my life and I don't feel like having to discuss or even defend my taste. I can openly say I DO vote for my groups and groupmates, too, why wouldn't I?
As a staffer here I get to see all of the issues with CSDb and one of those issues, for some people, is the anon voting. It usually starts with a PM which reads along the lines of "Can you tell me who the asshole is that downvoted me on such and such release?" When I look at the mentioned vote, not to inform on the anon voter, but to simply see if someone is being an asshole ... routinely the vote in question is a 6. In what twisted world is a vote of 6 out of 10 a downvote?
Even tho the majority of us are 35+ years old there is still that little teenager hidden away with lots of people. Simply saying "Grow up" isn't going to change the fact that if the votes went public there would be a shitstorm of problems here and I'm betting the staff would have to ban at least 10-15 people. |
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GH
Registered: Sep 2014
Posts: 77 |
Last thing we want is a shitload of problems for the moderators...
Did people mention enough already you're doing a great job?
@Mr Ammo: "Tyranny" because of some C-64 release at the age of 40+? I don't think so :D |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 248 |
"1. Not allowing to comment on a release unless a vote is submitted (just like on Pouet), this would encourage voting."
this! |
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Rastah Bar
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2012
Posts: 336 |
Quote: I just can't wrap my head around this unmitigated, pure crap we use for voting. Here's a situation where I actually have to vote waaaay lower than it deserves, in order to increase a release's rating.
This is simply ridiculous.
"Hey, this release is really cool, I'll give it a tenner."
"WTF, the rating got lower?!? Ok, maybe it counts as an illicit upvote and it is filtered with some clever algorythm, let's go with 9 then."
"Damn, now it's way lower than it would be without my vote. Maybe an 8 will help?"
"Nah, this is getting worse, but let's see what happens if I vote with a 7."
"Shit, still no good, I'll jump to an ever lower number just for the sake of experiencing more of this shit."
"Oh great, now we're getting somewhere, one more try."
"YEY! I love this release, so it will get a 6 from me."
My guess of what is happening: a reference average vote and a spread around the mean are calculated. Perhaps the median and standard deviation. The final average vote is a weighted average of all votes where the votes are progressively downweighted according to their distance from the reference average, where the "distance" is normalized by the spread.
This means that if you vote low, the spread increases and some of the high votes will get more weight. Resulting in an increase in the final weighted average vote. But if you look at what happens when the vote becomes lower and lower, at some point the weights of the highest votes have maxed out, and the decrease in weight of the low vote does not compensate for its actual lower value and then the final weighted average vote can go down again. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Sooo... Magic? Got it :) |
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ilesj
Registered: Jun 2012
Posts: 27 |
Mr. Ammo and Moloch raise a good point. The average rating calculation may be faulty, but so is peoples' voting habits. Any new release gets votes only in the 8-10 range routinely, with the few random "downvotes", unless it's somehow a crappy release. Anything below 8 is considered a downvote, apparently.
How well a release is received can in practice be judged by the number of nines and tens it receives, not by the (weighted) average rating.
I see biggest problem with compos held on CSDb with CSDb voting. In a compo voting I would like to use the full 1-10 scale to differentiate the entries from each other. But CSDb voting puts me off, because giving anything below 8 is "being an asshole". |
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DKT
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 99 |
What ilesj said.
And... Compos should not use CSDB voting system, because we can't compare vote value 10 for new release with vote value 10 for Crest Avantgarde or Dawnfall, a classic productions. It's better to provide external simple vote-sheet and then full range of votes will be used by people (like on parties).
Beside this, people don't have time to vote (to provide good result with efficient number of votes) so who cares... |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quote: Mr. Ammo and Moloch raise a good point. The average rating calculation may be faulty, but so is peoples' voting habits. Any new release gets votes only in the 8-10 range routinely, with the few random "downvotes", unless it's somehow a crappy release. Anything below 8 is considered a downvote, apparently.
How well a release is received can in practice be judged by the number of nines and tens it receives, not by the (weighted) average rating.
I see biggest problem with compos held on CSDb with CSDb voting. In a compo voting I would like to use the full 1-10 scale to differentiate the entries from each other. But CSDb voting puts me off, because giving anything below 8 is "being an asshole".
Seems that the main culprit of the annoyance is that there's a voting statistic for the releases, so people can see when someone votes undesirably.
Why is this list of number of votes per value necessary at all?
Why are the votes of anonymous voters public anyway? |
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ilesj
Registered: Jun 2012
Posts: 27 |
IMO, seeing what kind of ratings are given, and how many, tells a lot more than the stupid weighted average. If there would be just the average rating without any details on the given ratings, that would tell absolutely nothing.
Why is the calculated average rating so important? |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quoting ilesjIMO, seeing what kind of ratings are given, and how many, tells a lot more than the stupid weighted average. Is it? When the majority votes with 8-10 anyway? That doesn't seem too useful to me. But I am not sure I'd be able to draw any conclusions from the votes even if they'd be more impartial, really.
Quoting ilesjIf there would be just the average rating without any details on the given ratings, that would tell absolutely nothing. This system as a whole tells absolutely nothing either, except from how many supporters/friends and/or haters you have on the scene.
Quoting ilesjWhy is the calculated average rating so important? It isn't, that's the point. |
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No-XS
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 79 |
Can I say something? I will anyway...
I never realized you could vote that way. I have always used the blue 'vote' button. And then it seems to work?!
So the 'rate this release' sidebar widget is broken. |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3187 |
Quote: Can I say something? I will anyway...
I never realized you could vote that way. I have always used the blue 'vote' button. And then it seems to work?!
So the 'rate this release' sidebar widget is broken.
uh? no, they are the same, what makes you think they act differently? Have you noticed differences using one or another? |
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No-XS
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 79 |
No. Like I said, I never used the voting from the sidebar. But by using the button, I never saw my voting go wrong. So I tested it. And When I vote 10, the number goes up. When I vote 1, the number goes down.
Now I tested it with the sidebar vote, and it also goes right for me.
So not sure then. Was trying to provide some more information. |
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Mr.Ammo
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 228 |
Quoting GH/MSL/Toondichters@Mr Ammo: "Tyranny" because of some C-64 release at the age of 40+? I don't think so :D
Well, then stop arguing for banning anonymous voting. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
or do it like on pouet, no point then to complain about voting :) thumb up or not. |
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Perplex
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 255 |
Quoting JailbirdWhy is this list of number of votes per value necessary at all?
It contains more information that any average score would.
If you don't like how the weighted average is calculated, you can use the statistical data to calculate your own average, weighted any way you like (or not weighted at all.) |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Or if you don't like your rating, just imagine all the votes you got are 10. Problem no more! |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 447 |
Jailbird: hah, exactly.
One can imagine an adhoc compo, which has a rule that voters should only vote the winner by giving it 10, and no other votes, also every participant gets 1 vote of 10 as if they voted themselves. That way every entry that is voted will get 10 average, and the winner can be selected by most votes. |
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GH
Registered: Sep 2014
Posts: 77 |
@Mr Ammo: Down voting anonymous should be banned. Of course.
All the other solutions are annoying and won't solve anything.
Don't waste your ammo ;) |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
No, forced public voting will make things worse :) Even less votes will result in averages that dont mean a thing at all anymore. Also itll stir up drama a lot. People are people no matter the age.
If you compare the averages of hidden and public votes youll find they dont differ much anyway. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4723 |
Vote if you want, and care if you want, but CSDb is not about voting. Enjoy the releases and have fun. Over and out. |
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Zirias
Registered: Jan 2014
Posts: 48 |
Quoting Mr AmmoIf you look at the data. Do you really think there's a problem with down voting? Or anonymous voting? Most definitely not.
Quoting Mr AmmoIs it likely that public voters have a bias towards up voting or voting what is socially desired? But it sure looks like this is the case? In fact, with the results you calculated, I'd argue that *public* voting should be disabled. With a scale of 10 values, it's silly to only use the top two or three. A 6 or 7 should be considered a good vote, just not an excellent one. With public votes, you can't expect honest votes, that's it...
As for the obscure weighting algorithm, either drop it entirely or maybe it might make sense to at least take the total amount of votes into consideration as well, using a scale from not applying any weighting at all with only 15 or fewer votes to fully applying the weighting starting at 50 votes. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quoting hedningVote if you want, and care if you want, but CSDb is not about voting.
Ah, the good ole' "if you don't think about it, it doesn't exist" answer to all the issues.
Why are the charts and ratings on crucial sections of the site then? You could trivialize it as much as you want, but voting is a vital part of CSDb. |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 248 |
what about a range of 1 - 100 for voting anyways?
i always wondered why this range was not used at X party for example. at some demos i think a 9 is too low, but 10 is too much. and i could also express with a higher range that i formyself like demo a) the most with 98 points, than demo b) giving 95 points. (second best demo) where with the option of a scale of 1-10 i would give both a 10.
hope you get the point ;) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
why not just stop the yearly whining about voting, and grow up finally. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quoting Oswaldgrow up finally Oh come on, Oswald. By the same logic, please grow up and quit sending products to competitions then. We are using a 36 years old computer to one up each other on fields which is basically completely ludicrous to any normal person.
If you haven't noticed that till now, "growing up" is not really our thing. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
good one :) |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
@Jailbird: Spot on. :) Although one can dream that one day we will realize that we're just doing this for fun.
Quoting Mr AmmoAll votes are already public. But the voters remain anonymous, like it should be. You seem to lean towards tyranny. You're comparing this to the process of electing political leaders for democratic countries? But shouldn't we cast the votes on paper and have a decentralized counting to reduce the risk of election fraud? |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
We're an anarchosyndicalist commune. We take
it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.
ARTHUR: Yes.
DENNIS: But all the decision of that officer have to be ratified
at a special biweekly meeting.
ARTHUR: Yes, I see.
DENNIS: By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,--
ARTHUR: Be quiet!
DENNIS: --but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more--
ARTHUR: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
WOMAN: Order, eh -- who does he think he is? |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 447 |
Funny, I too was thinking of a govenrnment analogue. In a sense that it is not possible to create a truthful system, because some cannot handle the truth. The negotiated compromise is a system that obscures the inconvenient facts and opinions. The system cannot be fixed or removed as over time everything is tied to the status quo, and a lot of time and effort is invested into that. |
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TWW
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 545 |
All my votes (the few I've made) are public.
In this case my vote (suggestion/support) would be: make votes public, end of problem.
What's the problem? Feelings???? HAHAHA fucking SJWs...
Respect is earned, not given. HTFU! |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1646 |
Megayawn @ this thread |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Quoting TWWmake votes public, end of problem. What's the problem? Apparently that it's the road to tyranny.
@Frantic: Congrats on hitting the 1337 number of posts though. |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1074 |
Mods please remove voting from the site and close this thread.
Thank you! |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3187 |
Quote: Mods please remove voting from the site and close this thread.
Thank you!
If only we mods could remove the voting, it would have been done already since a long time. |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2219 |
Quoting CruzerQuoting TWWmake votes public, end of problem. What's the problem? Apparently that it's the road to tyranny. ...
LMAO
you guys are killing me X_D |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11357 |
what a cute thread. whats wrong with you guys? =D |
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DjS
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 48 |
Like, Neutral opinion or Dislike would suit the common voting trend better.... But I get it, it's tough... People have put effort in something (usually).
In compo's I'd like to see order of preference instead of giving scores, I think that would be the most honest way to determine an end score. |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 498 |
Quote:In compo's I'd like to see order of preference instead of giving scores
Yep.
On the other hand: sorting all the entries from compos like crack intro music, he-man compo and 128 byte charset compo would be a hell of a job then ;-) |
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 323 |
Quote: All my votes (the few I've made) are public.
In this case my vote (suggestion/support) would be: make votes public, end of problem.
What's the problem? Feelings???? HAHAHA fucking SJWs...
Respect is earned, not given. HTFU!
making all votes public would not be the end to the problem, I can guarantee it would be the start of many more problems since this site contains far too many sad and egotistical clowns that will then go on to harass people that voted for the way they did. also, I'm not sure where the rest of comment fits in with the rest of the conversation. what do 'sjws' have to do with anything? "respect is earned, not given" - what? I don't understand what you mean by that.
when you vote at your elections, do you write down your name on the ballot before you cast it? of course not. why should it be any different elsewhere? oh, I know why.. because of the sad and giant egotistical clowns that want to give other users trouble for the way they voted. this is the only reason why some users want all votes public, and we all know it's true. the harassment of users has happened before by unhappy uploaders that become infuriated because they 'believe' their upload should have got a higher score. It will continue to happen until all votes are anonymous or the voting system is just deleted/disabled. |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 498 |
Quote:I'm not sure where the rest of comment fits in with the rest of the conversation. what do 'sjws' have to do with anything? "respect is earned, not given" - what? I don't understand what you mean by that.
Wild guess: "drunk on the internet"-syndrome :) |
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TWW
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 545 |
CRAP! Had written a solid answer but the damn forum bugged out and it was not submitted....
So please visualise a smart reply here about this and HA! |
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2925 |
Adam summed things up nicely and now another pointless thread about voting at CSDb comes to a close.
(read: Things aren't going to change) |
