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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5023 |
Release id #237162 : Tribute to Vangelis
@4gent,
1) feels you took those quotes out of context
2) I even said to 2 girls on the schoolyard when I was 9 that I'm never gonna have sex because its disgusting
3) Talent added so much of his own, that I consider it an original work, Vermeer traced outlines with pinhole camera, Talent used another work for reference I couldnt care less. |
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Electric
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 39 |
@CreamD
The wall mockups from The Pixeled Years -exhibition at The FInnish Museum of Games in Tampere: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DUFioUj1jdpJUrOwILkZ_KpsBSFN9w..
This was curated by Duce and me. Note that the exhibition presents Finnish C64 demoscene pixel graphics. We split the small space in three:
1) "Logo wall" presenting mostly 80s logos (logos were prolly the main graphics of the early scene)
2) “History wall” with few images from 80s and 90s, with aim to present how the works developed over the years, along tools. With short infos that explained about the use of references and technical approach to pixel art. The works on this wall were not meant to be ‘awesome’ but merely 'interesting' and explaining how things evolved. We tried to have one image from each year until 1999. Now looking at it there are few that seem somewhat original (not just one as I earlier said).
3) “Modern wall” with a lot of images, mainly recent or made after millenium. We tried to focus on original own hand-pixeled art. References were used in many images on this wall as well.
Along these there were a slideshow with +200 images and work stations with 80s setup (Art Studio + stick) and modern one (laptop + mouse + Multipaint).
NOTE! These mockups are prolly not the very final ones. Anyway, you get the point from here.
@TheRyk
I meant mostly moderators in Facebook groups. Wish that the productional notes or information on AI use or such would be shared along the images. Well, most group just want to get visibility for the actual group so posting fast is what they do.
When it comes to CSDB we all can of course add these notes by ourselves. That’s also what this debate is partly about – information or lack of it. However, I proposed earlier a release type of “C64 Converted Graphics” or such – now the AI and all goes to same place with hand-pixeled stuff and causes errors. This would be something that matters to us doing graphics.
@Jazzcat
I hope the thread dies at some point but the outcome would be some sort of common deal on our ethics. Enough bad blood already spilled and supposingly that won’t really dry along with the discussion without an outcome. |
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macx
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 250 |
Quote: Quoting LManI am an atheist, but I always liked the "who is without sin may throw first" sentiment.
I'm a theist and I second that.
Although I think the proper bible verse for the development in this thread is "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." ;-)
Correct. But can we now please focus on what is important in this scene: To hand-pixel images by Boris Vallejo by initially copying them onto a grid graph paper.
This Waikiki release (coding by Hollowman) was converted, but these ones were not: The Walk of Life Is Never a Walk on Straight Lines, Year of 1337. Mountain Dew C0de Red Odyssey was a combination.
I also agree with King Fisher.
EOM.
//macx
Boar's Head Tavern | byob.hopto.org:64128 |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11136 |
Quote:a release type of “C64 Converted Graphics”
Ha! First we need "C64 idiotic scheisse crack" though :) |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 243 |
Quote: Quote:a release type of “C64 Converted Graphics”
Ha! First we need "C64 idiotic scheisse crack" though :)
Nah, we need PETSCII first. =) |
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Electric
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 39 |
Quoting PeacemakerNah, we need PETSCII first. =)
Yes, PETSCII conversions should be put in the same type of release. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11136 |
"deleted"? |
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Iridon
Registered: Dec 2023
Posts: 5 |
So again. I find the topic confusing as it seems there is both "accusations" of stealing artwork and using tools to generate the image.
For me its clear now its an conversion of a reference image (Like I myself did a lot on Amiga and probably still will do) so that is out of the air.
What I find interesting is Talents amazing technique and style. And again I am deeply impressed by it and more wanted to break down how I think he works.
He has generated a master palette from the C64 16 colors, much some PC EGA games did. And then starts out and convert the image to this palette which is his main work area. He do an amazing job to clean up and polish and make sure the right colors are picket.
Then this image is converted to the 16 c64 color with automated checkerboard dithering. Results depending on the image and the pre work in the hi color version.
So in the end its still a lot of cleanup to do and all.
What impresses me the most is the core idea and also how he managed to learn how to pick the right colors from this HIRES palette that converts to the right C64 image.
How much of this is done by hand or by conversion I do not know. What I do know is that he has this conversion in his head and fingers as much as any tool so for me its not really important.
Key is the amount of pixel perfection skill to end up with the end result. And to be able to construct this workpipeline regardless of how it is. Is pure genious |
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Iridon
Registered: Dec 2023
Posts: 5 |
So here is an example to those who says its "JUST" to convert
Top left: original photo.
Top Middle: converted in PS to the master palette I think Talent use.
Top right: converted to C64 palette.
It look shit right?
Now take the bottom row.
Bottom left: This is using the master palette (how its done lets talk about later.)
Mottom middle: converted in PS to C64 palette.
Bottom right: Talents picture
As you can see the autoconversion I did from the bottom left is not bad. Not far off at all from the one Talent did. Its mostly cleanup and some realigment done.
But how did it become so great?
Because the bottom left is pixeled to allow this autoconversion to work well. Its using colors that will look ok from the "dither palette" and it uses semi dithering, diagonal line steaks to facilitate a good conversion.
So for me it do not really matter how much Talent is spending his time in. Is it in the 256 color HIRES palette image or in the 16 color PEPTO image.
Who kmows? who cares? I bet it depends on picture mood etc etc. Maybe he has now become so used to this workflow that he is converting this in his head as fast and do a lot of the polishing in the end 16 color image or maybe he has become a god of knowing of how the 256 converts to 16 and powerpixel most of the time there and converts and just cleanup in 16 color.
Point again. It takes tremendous skillset to work in both of those modes. And to take the original image which as you can see uses VERY different colors and manage it to translate so well to the end 160x200 16 color C64 palette glorious masterpiece its far from trivial.
And as many says. people who think so are free to also start popping out "talent style images"
I myself tested with a few images to brute force convert and it looked like vomit. I think I myself would spend most of my time in the 256 mode but it would take me hours and hours still to both pixel the image there but to learn how use the right set that would end up good in 16 color. And to be able to use this mode less and less and just do it straight on in 16 color would take even more houndreds of hours.
So I dont call if its called art or whatever but anyone whol dismisses the true craftmanship that Talents images are, well as said nothing is stopping them from doing it themselves. |
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PAL
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 269 |
Iridon: What are we looking at here? Is it created from Talent's image or the ZBrush image? How would it turn out if you applied your magic to a random image from the internet, like taking a snippet of Gandalf's face and running it through your wizardry? (http://tinyurl.com/3yxbc96a)
Did I miss something in your post? Have you generated something very similar, or is it all based on Talent's insanely great pixels throughout?
If you've developed a method to achieve similar results, that's intriguing regardless. Looking forward to understanding more!
Edit: While writing this, you posted more with additional examples, but still, can you simply swap images and achieve similar results? If so, that's the pipeline stuff I've been trying to figure out after all this came up. However, your tests seem to involve a more technical approach compared to my ninja moves. I'm just a humble idiot who had to make several conversions and then blend them all to even attempt simulating something like Talent's pixels.
Ok I see what you say... as my assumption also... I could create a look alike bad and not great but to make it that real like Talent do is insane! |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 243 |
Quote: Iridon: What are we looking at here? Is it created from Talent's image or the ZBrush image? How would it turn out if you applied your magic to a random image from the internet, like taking a snippet of Gandalf's face and running it through your wizardry? (http://tinyurl.com/3yxbc96a)
Did I miss something in your post? Have you generated something very similar, or is it all based on Talent's insanely great pixels throughout?
If you've developed a method to achieve similar results, that's intriguing regardless. Looking forward to understanding more!
Edit: While writing this, you posted more with additional examples, but still, can you simply swap images and achieve similar results? If so, that's the pipeline stuff I've been trying to figure out after all this came up. However, your tests seem to involve a more technical approach compared to my ninja moves. I'm just a humble idiot who had to make several conversions and then blend them all to even attempt simulating something like Talent's pixels.
Ok I see what you say... as my assumption also... I could create a look alike bad and not great but to make it that real like Talent do is insane!
Pal: Where you see the keyboard, the source is ofcourse Talents c64 koala pic. |
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