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STE'86
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 274 |
a plea from an old schooler
please dont use modified PAL emulating screenshots for pictures on this site.
people may want to use this site to download unmodified c64 art in gif or png format with pure pixel definition.
if they want to see the stuff in highly debatable pal emulation mode people can download the PRG files and view them in that mode on an emulator.
Thanks
Steve |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
"Some people seem to be mistaking us wanting a "clean" image for us saying PAL emulation is TOTALLY wrong"
rightfully so:
"the filtered stuff is nothing like how Ste, myself and quite a few other people I know saw it" |
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JCB
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 241 |
Quote: The alternate line color mixing is the reality. Try it on your setup. I've seen it myself it was a shocking discovery. Blurred smeared pixels were also there. In the 80s you had all these artefacts on a CRT. Its not a matter of opinion. You can literally count hires pixels in a chessboard pattern on todays monitors, on the old CRTs you will get most of the time new colors out of this.
Its not a matter of different TVs either, its how PAL signal works.
Wish I had my phone's usb cable with me, I could show all these effects to you right away.
It's ok, my memory isn't so bad that I don't remember what I saw in front of me. PAL blending is a reality but I think sometimes the emulation version is WAY over what it should be.
Pete |
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STE'86
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 274 |
Quote: The alternate line color mixing is the reality. Try it on your setup. I've seen it myself it was a shocking discovery. Blurred smeared pixels were also there. In the 80s you had all these artefacts on a CRT. Its not a matter of opinion. You can literally count hires pixels in a chessboard pattern on todays monitors, on the old CRTs you will get most of the time new colors out of this.
Its not a matter of different TVs either, its how PAL signal works.
Wish I had my phone's usb cable with me, I could show all these effects to you right away.
actually what u tended to get was "moire" if used more than a characters worth.
use lots and u got a lovely alternating vertical stripe effect that anyone painting with koalapainter on an 80s crt can tell u about.
you didnt get any usable extra colours just irritating chroma noise.
Steve |
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JCB
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 241 |
Quote: "Some people seem to be mistaking us wanting a "clean" image for us saying PAL emulation is TOTALLY wrong"
rightfully so:
"the filtered stuff is nothing like how Ste, myself and quite a few other people I know saw it"
Jesus, is your name atariski? lol
No, that's you reading what you believe I'm saying into what I actually said ;) I'm saying after talking to Ste and some other people I know the PAL emulation is too overzealous you could maybe call it and therefore ruins the image "for us" I'm also including certain palettes in that that are then hard coded once pal emulation is applied to a gif/png. I've never said it's not necessary at some point in the chain to produce an "emulation" of a C64 displaying an image.
Pete |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
Quote: Well i'm not happy with it Oswald :)
and bearing in mind i used to draw on the original i would would find it extremely difficult to draw in the current favoured palettes and effects being as how they make about 1/3 of the palette almost the same colours.
we didnt use the Force you know. we could actually tell the colours apart.
Steve
I have drawn a LOT of stuff on the original aswell. Not as much as you, but i have plenty of sprites, sprite animations, character sets, logos & fullscreen koala pics behind my back. All on the real thing.
Pepto's palette is based on very strict measurements and calculations and its not as you imply made up to make pixelling easyer. Guess you have seen the page where all calculations are written down?
Do you have a c64 setup atmo? Arent the pixels blured? Same brightness alternate line colors dont mix? Dont you see that every 2nd line is darker? etc. Its hard to believe. |
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 675 |
my 2 cents:
I *really* dislike the idea of a screenshot here representing the image... People judge/vote/comment on screenshots already as is. Most prominent in MCI images :)
For all I care the screenshots could be made with 4-col dither instead to FORCE people to check it out on either a real thing OR at least a decent emulator with THEIR setting of preference. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
Quote: Jesus, is your name atariski? lol
No, that's you reading what you believe I'm saying into what I actually said ;) I'm saying after talking to Ste and some other people I know the PAL emulation is too overzealous you could maybe call it and therefore ruins the image "for us" I'm also including certain palettes in that that are then hard coded once pal emulation is applied to a gif/png. I've never said it's not necessary at some point in the chain to produce an "emulation" of a C64 displaying an image.
Pete
Sure, Pal emulation is imperfect, but I had several nerdgasms when it was introduced, its much better than without. Also in Vice You have a lot of options to change it to your liking, saturation, cntrast, blurryness, etc you name it. |
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STE'86
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 274 |
well in all honesty i think the pepto palette is complete cobblers.
no 64 palette i ever used has such dark and muted colours as what i see when i load a koala image into your app with that palette.
in your own app, the Wanja palette gives me the results i would expect to see on a 64.
Steve |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11114 |
"Its hard to believe."
indeed. it may sound harsh but, some people may simple remember wrong, and should check out some things on the real thing again :)
"For all I care the screenshots could be made with 4-col dither instead to FORCE people to check it out on either a real thing OR at least a decent emulator with THEIR setting of preference."
i like to encourage people to create actual screenshots, ie not use an emulator but a video grabber :) |
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STE'86
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 274 |
just a small point but if u can and need to change all the values, how the hell can it be accurate and definitive?
Steve |
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