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fadiga
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 23 |
lemon 64
hey guys - ive been checking out old c64 stuff on the net and i dont know if you realised there is another website called lemon 64 quite similar to this one. its miles better than this site, much more info on it and better discussions. you should try it out if you have never been there. its www.lemon64.com i cant imagine there are many people who actually use this once they have discovered lemon64 |
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fadiga
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 23 |
Quote: Then it's up to the individual to decide. I for one don't play many games, modern games imho mostly suck, I'll have a blast on MAME every now and again and sometimes spend a few hours on other emulators (c64,amiga etc) BUT I'll download the latest c64 demo and sit and watch it and enjoy it, then go back to old ones and watch/listen to those.
I think people who've been involved in demos are more likely too feel this way because we've been (or are still) part of the process, I've also been a games coder for the past ~15 years and knowing how both situations work (demos and games) is what's poisoned me to modern games. c64 demos are a group of guys (and girls sometimes) who code/draw/compose for fun, recognition and the enjoyment of others. Game coders get money for it and quite a lot of the time don't care what people think of what they're working on.
People who've never been part of the "scene" don't have the appretiation (or not as much) for what is involved and therefore look at demos from the point of view of "well, it kinda looks ok and it's doing some stuff on the screen, but I can't do anything. I've got this game though and I can blow away thousands of monsters or drive my car real fast"
The same goes for the "watch a video of your favourite football team" analogy. Football can be exciting at times, most of the time it's a bunch of blokes kicking a ball around and not much else for a LONG time ;) We've all played football and the fact that if you get bored of watching that video you can go outside and have a kick around is what gives you the link to watching professionals play and gives you an avenue into becoming part of it. Watch a c64 demo, get bored of it and if you can't code/draw/compose music, what are you going to do? Nothing. Games give you that "in" you become involved without having to have any technical skills.
(disclaimer, this probably makes no sense, just typing my thoughts on the subject as there seems to have been a lot of debate on the whole "scene" issue recently) :)
thats a good post, and as im sure its quite obvious im not a coder or really into the demo scene. but i do have an open mind and all im saying is (unless you are actually making the demos) i cant imagine just sitting in a chair watching a screen is that entertaining - past about 10 minuted. with a game (a good one - there are plenty of sh*t ones) you become involved - ie you have control of something within the game. i view this like comparing an art gallery to an amusement arcade - both are fun, but one you are a passive viewer of pictures/art etc.. and the other you are actually taking part in something.
surely once you have seena demo a few times, thats it - its the same every time. with a game there is a random element and some SKILL involved. thats the difference. obviously it takes a great deal of skill to code either a game, or a demo. butafter its been made, a game still requires skill to play - a demo doesnt.
fair point? |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Skill to watch no, but most action games merely require good hand-to-eye coordination and pattern learning rather than actual skill; since our kids have just had a long weekend and we finally got the cheap Dreamcast the Boss and i got connected to the telly, i spent a few hours rattling around the track on Magical Racing Tour and generally hammering the ten year old at it. i wouldn't say that i needed any skill to do that, any more than being able to finish IO on the C64 needs more than a fast trigger finger and forewarning of where the waves come from.
To appreciate demo coding you only need to know the machine, in the same way that you need to know the basic rules of football for a kickaround at the rec. Neither takes any skill; anybody can watch a demo, but understanding why it's so special (or not, as the case may be) takes a little back knowledge. Anybody can kick a ball too, but again they only have a base understanding of what really goes into being a pro footballer...
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034 |
What a twisted look at the world! Who is passive here? Sceners or you. Active sceners are more-or-less artists who create. Nobody asks you to watch C64 art but PLEASE reconsider your soil legged opinions on reality. You already had plenty of chances to realise in this debate that your ideas are foolish so stop closing your eyes. Read again and *THINK*. Gaming is just a consumerism. All you do is just eating something which someone else have prepared for you. If you feel good like thatm no problem, but please don't try to persuade us that that consumerism is a sense of life. Wake up.
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fade
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 290 |
Quote: good one - i bet you're popular on this forum
more popular than the last issue of rock n role thats for sure, go play a bayliss game and get the fuck outta here..
Cuddles and Clouds for you..
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fadiga
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 23 |
Quote: more popular than the last issue of rock n role thats for sure, go play a bayliss game and get the fuck outta here..
Cuddles and Clouds for you..
it helps if you can communicate in english - could you possibly provide some subtitles to your last post? |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quote: it helps if you can communicate in english - could you possibly provide some subtitles to your last post?
That *was* English, it just contains some cultural references you won't get as someone not immersed in the scene... |
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fadiga
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 23 |
Quote: Skill to watch no, but most action games merely require good hand-to-eye coordination and pattern learning rather than actual skill; since our kids have just had a long weekend and we finally got the cheap Dreamcast the Boss and i got connected to the telly, i spent a few hours rattling around the track on Magical Racing Tour and generally hammering the ten year old at it. i wouldn't say that i needed any skill to do that, any more than being able to finish IO on the C64 needs more than a fast trigger finger and forewarning of where the waves come from.
To appreciate demo coding you only need to know the machine, in the same way that you need to know the basic rules of football for a kickaround at the rec. Neither takes any skill; anybody can watch a demo, but understanding why it's so special (or not, as the case may be) takes a little back knowledge. Anybody can kick a ball too, but again they only have a base understanding of what really goes into being a pro footballer...
...but surely watching a football match is great ONCE - but if you watch the same one again its a bit boring/predictable. im not talking about 'an outlook on life' or anything philosophical as CreaMD is suggesting, all i am doing is tlkaing about c64 usage in general. I think to say that playing a game does not take any skill is a bit unrealistic - the fact that you are able to get a Dreamcast and be very good at it straight away probably shows that you have a lot of game playing skill yourself, not that the game is too easy. Undoubtedly it is a great skill to be able to program any system, but i dont think you should look down your nose on people who enjoy playing games as a recreation. CreaMD thinks my opinions are foolish and should wake up - do you really think the idea of some recreational game playing/nostalgic game playing is strange?
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fade
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 290 |
Quote: it helps if you can communicate in english - could you possibly provide some subtitles to your last post?
You must be American, why don't you try and find out what I am talking about.. then violate yourself with a sharp object |
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fade
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 290 |
btw, Thanks Jason for that politically correct statement :) |
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fadiga
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 23 |
Quote: You must be American, why don't you try and find out what I am talking about.. then violate yourself with a sharp object
i would do that to myself if i was an american trust me. dont get me wrong, i understood the words you used - just not in that strange order. I think your mum lets you use the computer too much
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