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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
Event id #3003 : Only Sprites Compo
Competition Rules:
* You can ONLY display sprites - no chars or bitmaps. Magic byte(s) CAN be used.
* Change any VIC properties that you like
* The Effect must be a one-screener in one PRG (preferably compressed) (no disk streaming)
* Variations of the effect are allowed
* Interaction is allowed - make it a game if you like ;-p
* Music is allowed and encouraged
* Borders can of course be removed
Winner will be chosen based on CSDB's rankings. |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
Is REU allowed? |
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Digger
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 432 |
Awesome compo idea. Got something half-cooked already =) But let's finish the ECM one before starting this one or at least have a generous deadline? |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
Can I reuse old parts? Such as the exploding cube in Drinking Buddies or the full border ESCOS tunnel in S:T Lars Meeting III - Invite :P |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
REU: No. Urgh, always with the edge cases ;-p
Reusing Parts: Yes, why not. CSDB voting is what matters - if the crowd don't like reused parts, they'll downvote ;-) |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
Quote: Awesome compo idea. Got something half-cooked already =) But let's finish the ECM one before starting this one or at least have a generous deadline?
Pushed to 24th Dec .. should be plenty of time I reckon :-) |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2971 |
What's the rationale behind sprites only? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11378 |
"Magic byte(s) CAN be used."
i guess you mean the idle byte?
Deadline is a bit tight for me, VICE release coming up :) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Somehow I felt this compo is about to kick in. Thought of it myself too :D |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
Quote: What's the rationale behind sprites only?
Aren't sprites enough?
I think it gives a decent constraint without going for the often-repeated memory-limited compos.
It will be good to see if anyone can create anything new and amazing with this ... I suspect there'll be some things that most of us never thought about. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
why not say that only hyperscreen is allowed ? that is turn off VICII display bit, but open the top/bottom border each frame, then you only have sprites and idle byte naturally. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11378 |
Don't the initial rules pretty much imply this? Who would want the badlines to be there with those rules in place? =D |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
Quote: why not say that only hyperscreen is allowed ? that is turn off VICII display bit, but open the top/bottom border each frame, then you only have sprites and idle byte naturally.
Maybe somebody has an amazing design idea but not the technical knowledge to do hyperscreen (is that the official name)?
I thought it best to just leave it as open as people like ;-) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
Quote: Maybe somebody has an amazing design idea but not the technical knowledge to do hyperscreen (is that the official name)?
I thought it best to just leave it as open as people like ;-)
yeah hyperscreen AFAIK, official as musch as FLI ;) |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 519 |
great compo! let's now talk about... the prizes! :) |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2971 |
Quoting RaistlinAren't sprites enough?
I think it gives a decent constraint without going for the often-repeated memory-limited compos.
It will be good to see if anyone can create anything new and amazing with this ... I suspect there'll be some things that most of us never thought about. I was just a bit suspicious about the overlapping timeframes (ECM compo still running), plus i could remember at least 3 different sprite-only parts in existing demos without much effort, while ECM-only(-ish)... is a lot rarer to find. |
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1787 |
Quote: yeah hyperscreen AFAIK, official as musch as FLI ;)
In VIC-article, the term hyperscreen refers to just opening the top/bottom borders. (section 3.14.1 "HYPERSCREEN") |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11378 |
Yep, "only sprites" is the opposite of "Hyperscreen". |
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Dane
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 423 |
Good idea! Quite a couple of effects that can be recycled for this. I would have preferred if you waited until the end of ECM compo though....don't distract us/them/yourself with new challenges! |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
Ok, as a few people mentioned that, I'll change the dates to be post-ECM :-) |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 447 |
Perhaps this old junk will do:
Starball Effect
Starfield
Though, it makes no sense to entry entries that have already been voted on. So, perhaps not. |
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Pex Mahoney Tufvesson
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 52 |
Mixer, that's not junk at all. Those are gems! |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1075 |
My plan was for a “no badlines” compo, but I guess this is effectively the same thing 😀 |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2971 |
Quoting MagerValpMy plan was for a “no badlines” compo, but I guess this is effectively the same thing 😀 Well...
Quote:no chars or bitmaps. Not quite. Using "linecrunching", you can display char/bitmap data without any badline during the entire frame, repeating the linebuffer content while omitting any DMA to update it. =) |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2226 |
Hehe, so much time before the compo has even started to whine about rules, you are doomed ;) |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1075 |
Quoting KrillUsing "linecrunching", you can display char/bitmap data without any badline during the entire frame, repeating the linebuffer content while omitting any DMA to update it. =)
Don't you need one badline at the top to kick it off? Or does the internal vic buffer retain what was there previously? But yeah creative cheating like that is what you'd hope for in a compo. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
you can infinitely supress badlines, and the last one red is displayed from the internal VICII buffer forever. VICII stores internally 40x4bit d800 color info and 40x8 bits of char data. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2971 |
Quoting KrillUsing "linecrunching", you can display char/bitmap data without any badline during the entire frame, repeating the linebuffer content while omitting any DMA to update it. =) Quoting MagerValpDon't you need one badline at the top to kick it off? Or does the internal vic buffer retain what was there previously? But yeah creative cheating like that is what you'd hope for in a compo. The buffer content is kept across video frames, so can do complete video frames with char/bitmap content entirely without badlines.
It's not creative cheating for a "no badlines" compo, imho, but it would be outlawed in a "sprites and idle byte only" compo. =) |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1075 |
Neat, then yes, we get the first arcane rule "clarification" for my fictional nonexistent no badlines compo, that you're allowed to set the internal 40x12 buffer once on startup :) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
Quote: Neat, then yes, we get the first arcane rule "clarification" for my fictional nonexistent no badlines compo, that you're allowed to set the internal 40x12 buffer once on startup :)
provide a code frame to set up the screen too :) |
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ChristopherJam
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1409 |
Oswald:
jsr wframe
lda#$70
sta $d011
... (fill $7c0..$7c0+39 and dbc0 to $dbc0+39 here)
jsr wframe
; now fill screen with linecrunch
...
wframe:
bit $d012
bpl *-3
bit $d012
bmi *-3
rts
Done :) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
cool ! I can do similar:
* = startcode
;put cool fx here
;end |
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ChristopherJam
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1409 |
eh, all you really need is
make deploy |
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Compyx
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631 |
So, basically we'd be repeating old Horizon, Triad, Censor, Bones, Upfront etc, demos? |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2971 |
Quoting CompyxSo, basically we'd be repeating old Horizon, Triad, Censor, Bones, Upfront etc, demos? Quite likely. Hard to do something fresh there, unlike ECM. :) |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
Quote: So, basically we'd be repeating old Horizon, Triad, Censor, Bones, Upfront etc, demos?
You could, of course... if you couldn’t think of anything new and better to do ;-)
Full screen sprite effects don’t need to be restricted to changing VIC registers each line ;-) |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2971 |
Quoting RaistlinFull screen sprite effects don’t need to be restricted to changing VIC registers each line ;-) You think the Ancients stopped there? :) |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
Being Ancient myself, and not having stopped myself (I just had a 27 year nap)... no. |
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The Human Code Machine
Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 112 |
Reminds me of 64er Sprite Multiplexer Competition |
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Boogaloo
Registered: Aug 2019
Posts: 24 |
For the record, there is no shame whatsoever in repeating Horizon demos. :-) |
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Compyx
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631 |
Certainly not =) |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 447 |
So, they're justified and ancients. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
Two weeks to go till the start :-) .. rules are set. Bring your best!*
*- early entries will of course be disqualified.
Nb. Self-voting and downvoting of competitors’ entries is fine. It’s naughty... but we’re just going to go by the CSDB score so, yeah, all gloves are off. |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2226 |
Quote:all gloves are off
Outsourcing the votes makes less difference than downvote paranoids might think, from my experience. And no matter how big or small the jury, there will almost always be - let's say: "exotic" votes and competitors who feel underrated (and sometimes the same people who voted other productions higher assure the disappointed that their rank is scandalous) |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 519 |
Quote: Quote:all gloves are off
Outsourcing the votes makes less difference than downvote paranoids might think, from my experience. And no matter how big or small the jury, there will almost always be - let's say: "exotic" votes and competitors who feel underrated (and sometimes the same people who voted other productions higher assure the disappointed that their rank is scandalous)
fact#1- indeed. there was voting drama, there is voting drama, there will be voting drama.
fact#2- CSDb is just a database, in a kindergarten |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2226 |
Zmash: men in their 40s who mess around with 30yo hw - what else than some childish whackos do you expect? :)
BTT rules: Screen on or border-only? |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
Screen/Border on/off... totally up to you. No rule for this = anything goes with borders (or not). |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
Posted a pointless example entry for the compo here: Hedge of Disgrace - Only Sprites Compo Edition
"Pointless" because, of course, there's no reason why anyone in their right mind would only use sprites for this... but, hey-ho- it serves as a simple out-of-compo example. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
NEW: I'll be donating a MEGA65 devkit as the prize for this compo. I'll ship that out as soon as I can once the compo is over. It would be helpful if someone in Europe won so that I don't have postal costs to USA/Australia/Asia/Africa to consider ;-p |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4724 |
Quote: NEW: I'll be donating a MEGA65 devkit as the prize for this compo. I'll ship that out as soon as I can once the compo is over. It would be helpful if someone in Europe won so that I don't have postal costs to USA/Australia/Asia/Africa to consider ;-p
HOLY SHIT! LET THE BATTLE BEGIN! |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
Not till Tuesday, Hedders, not till Tuesday. Any entries sent before then will automatically go to Out of Compo :-p |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
Compo starts TOMORROW :-) |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
"Winner will be chosen based on CSDB's rankings."
.. I'll take a look at scores at midnight (GMT) on 22nd January. Unless everyone disagrees, I'd like to just take a simple average of the score rather than the ranking - so I would total up the score and divide by the number of votes... no weighted algorithm. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
Quote: "Winner will be chosen based on CSDB's rankings."
.. I'll take a look at scores at midnight (GMT) on 22nd January. Unless everyone disagrees, I'd like to just take a simple average of the score rather than the ranking - so I would total up the score and divide by the number of votes... no weighted algorithm.
you'll make the downvoters happy with that. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
Quote: you'll make the downvoters happy with that.
I haven't seen evidence that CSDb's weighted voting works all that well. Somebody pointed out to me that if there's a prize involved, and the scoring system is "behind closed doors" (a "secret" algorithm), then the result could be contested.
The prize is substantial on this one (1000Euro value)... so the "calculation" of who's won needs to be plain IMO. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
I recommend counting squared number of votes :) Really reliable, even if final average seems a little too sweet. No classic weights here. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
Quote: I recommend counting squared number of votes :) Really reliable, even if final average seems a little too sweet. No classic weights here.
This sounds like a good idea. So something like:-
(((#10votes)^2 * 10) + ((#9votes)^2 * 9) + ... + ((#1votes)^2 * 1)) / ((#10votes)^2 + ... + (#1votes)^2)
That does seem to work well.
Check:-
Demo 1.. 20 people vote 10, 1 votes 1
Demo 2.. 20 people vote 1, 1 votes 10
Demo 1
Reg: (20 * 10 + 1 * 1) / 21 = 201 / 21 = 9.571
Squ: (20^2 * 10 + 1^2 * 1)/(20^2 + 1^2) = 4001/401 = 9.9775..
Demo 2
Reg: (1 * 10 + 20 * 1) / 21 = 30 / 21 = 1.428
Squ: (1^2 * 10 + 20^2 * 1)/(1^2 + 20^2) = 410/401 = 1.022
Ok, let's go with the squared calculation. Is everyone ok with this..? |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 519 |
compo is yours. decision too :) |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
Yep, I'll use the squared calculation. Thanks Jammer for the idea. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
I've used it once already in my own compo but I was yet a bit afraid of utilizing it alone. Hence I mixed it with simple mean - now I regret a bit :D |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
nb. I have the Mega65 now. Still fully boxed - I haven't even taken the sellotape off the box to have a peek. When the compo winner is decided, I'll arrange international (or national..?) delivery ASAP. Stamps Back of course ;-p |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
Holy shit what an awesome compo!
So many great contributions, it's amazing what this machine and its sceners are still capable of.
I've just watched all entries and placed my votes, trying not to hand out 10s to everyone - which wasn't easy. |
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Shine
Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 354 |
Indeed...
this compo is a true success! :)
So many amazing entries! Thanks a lot to all involved! :D |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 447 |
Congrats for the winner! But honestly, a child back in 1988 could do that, and probably did. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
"a child back in 1988 could do that, and probably did"
Mixer: why don't you show that a child can do it in 2021 by making one yourself..? If you come back out from under your little troll bridge there ;-p |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 447 |
Grow a pair, Raistlin. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
Balls, man boobs or chins? I have all three. |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 447 |
I guess you're all set then, my bad. |
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Trap
Registered: Jul 2010
Posts: 223 |
I'm sorry that you are so full of envy of our skills, Mixer. I would much rather have seen a creative response than just trolling, but I guess you cannot do it - even though you are not a child, but (supposedly?) a grown-up. I feel sorry for you that you have nothing to give but hatred.
Yeah, do tell me you are making fun .. but no, it's not funny and everybody knows that your comments are just an outlet of bitterness that you cannot find anywhere to place except than to put down other people on the internet.
I truly feel sorry for you. Such a little man.
but hey! ... I might be wrong, but then you need to do some work on your written communication skills :) |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 447 |
There is a lot of dishonesty around nowadays, and people get upset about all critique. Not just you Raistlin and Trap. Some 2000's thing? Assume the worst always? Why do you whine when people critique your stuff?
I have received whining in private messages if I did not praise some 1000 times done thing to heavens. I've seen logo and scroller before. I've heard musicians write the same tune all over again. Good job well done. Not winner.
My opinions about the oldschool sprite demo are honest. It does not push the scene forward in any other way than someone did it, it will win because it is a nostalgy trip.
There were technically better entries in my opinion, however popular vote wins, so the crowdpleaser wins. It's been always like this.
It has nothing to do with envy, just honesty of personal opinion, and take all this critique with love, not hate. You guys can do much better and much more original stuff.
So, not envious, but just disappointed little man. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2971 |
Quoting Mixer... You can always make a demo about it. =) |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
Mixer doesn’t make demos - he just complains about others’ work while making little plasmas and spending 2-3 years making a single part for a Performers demo.
Harsh words.. but trolls deserve no less ;-)
Can I go back to trolling Excess and Jazzcat now? ;-) |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 447 |
Thank you Raistlin. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
No worries - have fun! See you in the demo compos ;-)
Less trolling, more coding ;-) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
I agree with Mixer on both things - dishonesty (too much ass licking) and boring nostalgy trip.
But in the end it boiles down to taste, and what can I do if majority of the scene likes seeing dycps and sideborder whatevers on loop since more than 30 years. Most ppl like it, I dont :)
and btw Performers demos are awesome: full with fx that scompletely new, and I have no idea how it was done :) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
btw I was pretty sure Mirage's game would win as it displayed superb gfx and technical feat both. |
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Carrion
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 317 |
btw: I was pretty sure at some point the compo will be canceled.
Anyway I'm extra happy my group has won. I'm MEGA happy and look forward to do some gfx for upcomming real C65 demos! |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
"and btw Performers demos are awesome"
Absolutely. I totally loved Concert - great code, for sure, and the music was even better (for me, as a nostalgia lover). And I loved the greeting scroller, huge logo and the inner-cube parts on their X2018 demo for sure.
But.. Walt's part was, IMO, innovative.. bringing a new level of coolness to oldschool DXYCPs. But you have to be able to really appreciate them.
Also, FYI, it's not easy for me to praise Walt's code - we're in a dire competition most of the time, trying to outdo each others' plot scroll effects ;-p .. so I hope it wasn't me the ass-licking comment was aimed at.
And finally, in terms of nostalgic effects... Mixer's done more than his fair share of plasmas.. you've just recently released an (admittedly smooth) tech-tech, not to mention twisters, rasters etc etc... so what makes DXYCPs more of a throwback than any of those I wonder?
Nostalgia is no bad thing IMO. In fact, isn't it why we're all here instead of making demos on top of the range PCs with ray-tracing capabilities etc? |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 519 |
Technically speaking I don't think Mixer's criticism is totally wrong.
For sure he could have used better words to express his thoughts, and IMHO a friendly language helps to have a more pleasant scene experience.
Anyway if you consider that top/bottom border was 1st opened in 1985 (so that's the year also ghost-byte was seen for the first time?), sideborder in 1986, sprite stretching a couple of years later, etc... well, it's not wrong to affirm that a talented guy/child with a lot of patience (no debuggers, no emulators, no 3rd party tools, etc) had everything to do a valid and solid entry in this compo even if timewarped in late 80s.
But the beauty of our beloved C64 is that this computer never changed and will never change! same ram, same vic, same sid, all exactly like almost 40 years ago. and today we are still here challenging ourselves to do everytime better, and we have fun with that! that's the real magic of this compo, exactly like with any prg produced by this community. |
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Sparta
Registered: Feb 2017
Posts: 49 |
I guess we all have our own interpretation of what the scene, CSDb, and these compos are for. (This time with some real, valuable prizes, raising the temperature of course.) This is not bad, and having your opinion about what you’d like to see here is not bad either. One thing I learned a few years ago is how to constructively present one’s criticism using the sandwich technique (and I bet there are other ways too). Believe me, it makes everyone feel much better about disagreeing. :) |
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ChristopherJam
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1409 |
Quoting CompyxSo, basically we'd be repeating old Horizon, Triad, Censor, Bones, Upfront etc, demos?
<cjam> looks at winning entry
But seriously, great work everyone.
I see Mixers point in that this was a competition where style was heavily rewarded (much as I'm impressed by the dxyccp in the winning entry), but I'm quite happy with that. I preferred the winning entry to the 2nd placed one too (and TBH I think Booze's other entry should've placed much higher than it did - that twister was gorgeous)
My only comment on the voting palaver is that if anything we should be discounting public votes, as there seems to be more peer pressure to vote everything an eight or higher, which leaves very little room for saying which of the top five or six entries you think should rate higher in the final rankings.
Sadly I didn't manage to make time to do my usual "rank every entry in a text file then dish out a few each of every possible score" so y'all are spared what some would call 'downvoting' from me this time :)
Thanks again for a great compo, Raistlin - hopefully I'll manage to cobble an entry together next time this theme is revisited. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
hmm what happened here, its suddencly a 2 category compo game/effect ? this was never in the rules in the compo page. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1090 |
Quoting TrapI'm sorry that you are so full of envy of our skills, Mixer. I would much rather have seen a creative response than just trolling, but I guess you cannot do it - even though you are not a child, but (supposedly?) a grown-up. I feel sorry for you that you have nothing to give but hatred.
Yeah, do tell me you are making fun .. but no, it's not funny and everybody knows that your comments are just an outlet of bitterness that you cannot find anywhere to place except than to put down other people on the internet.
I truly feel sorry for you. Such a little man.
but hey! ... I might be wrong, but then you need to do some work on your written communication skills :)
wow Trap, your super negative and ad hominem attacks here make me think *you* need to do some work on your written communication skills :) |
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ChristopherJam
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1409 |
Oswald: Check the discussion on the event page around the 6th of January. |
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Trap
Registered: Jul 2010
Posts: 223 |
You are right. I was out of Line. I am sorry and a bit embarrased about this.
Somehow it just really got to me.
Sorry about this, guys. I wasnt myself.
I will crawl back to my hole now. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1090 |
no worries buddy :) Goethe once said: "By seeking and blundering we learn."
"Harsh criticism is the cost of a tight win" Burglar 2021 :) |
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oziphantom
Registered: Oct 2014
Posts: 490 |
My entry was so good it was cracked twice by the same group! |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1090 |
Quoting oziphantomMy entry was so good it was cracked twice by the same group! LOLOLOL :D now this was funny :) |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
Ozi: reading up on the crash bug you’ve been seeing, I didn’t realise quite how complex your game was actually... neat stuff! Of course, the ghostbyte changes are the big factor here as you need to update those every line - easy to forget these things when just loosely looking at these releases. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
Also, Mixer, Oswald, apologies if things got a little heated yesterday. I get defensive of these things because I know how much some of us put into this hobby - and it can really hurt when people put that down. |
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Laxity
Registered: Aug 2005
Posts: 459 |
Quote: There is a lot of dishonesty around nowadays, and people get upset about all critique. Not just you Raistlin and Trap. Some 2000's thing? Assume the worst always? Why do you whine when people critique your stuff?
I have received whining in private messages if I did not praise some 1000 times done thing to heavens. I've seen logo and scroller before. I've heard musicians write the same tune all over again. Good job well done. Not winner.
My opinions about the oldschool sprite demo are honest. It does not push the scene forward in any other way than someone did it, it will win because it is a nostalgy trip.
There were technically better entries in my opinion, however popular vote wins, so the crowdpleaser wins. It's been always like this.
It has nothing to do with envy, just honesty of personal opinion, and take all this critique with love, not hate. You guys can do much better and much more original stuff.
So, not envious, but just disappointed little man.
That’s all cool. What I don’t get is the urge to put things down, just because you do not agree with them. A competition like this is really a popularity contest, hopefully in the context of the overall experience, rather than about a specific detail in the demos or who made them. I liked a lot of the demos for the entirety of what they constitute. If I were to judge them on the basis of a predisposition, say whether the music is based on a pentatonic approach or what ever, I would find myself not to be open to surprises or emotional movement, but rather focusing on a nonsensical detail. Voting on the basis of what YOU like is really highly personal, and telling others they are wrong if they like something else, is not really doing anything good, I think. Nor is telling people here that what they are creating is trivial. I think such statements as harmful to peoples choices to express themselves in a scene that I think should embrace creativity on any level. I’m saying this to you respectfully - I realize we all have different ways of expressing what we like and expect from the scene as well as different expectations as to what the scene SHOULD be - and I do agree with some of the things you are saying too. And I also think some of the responses to your original post were pretty unnecessary. :) ... and now I’m considering whether to even post this, because I’m too old and tired to start a long discussion and being told I’m stupid. Well, fuck it. :D |
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ChristopherJam
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1409 |
<3 |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 447 |
Its all good Raistlin, Trap. Some healthy discussion has come out of this. Lesson learned. |
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Perplex
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 255 |
Thank you, Laxity. I agree wholeheartily with what you wrote, so clearly it wasn't stupid at all. ;)
I'd also like to add that these are trying times for most of us, so please try to be a little generous toward those who manage to be productive and gift us with their fun creations despite everything going on around us. |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
Group hug! |
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Youth
Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 43 |
Woops I didn’t realize this compo was all about winning it! I thought it was about having fun and creating stuff ;) I’ll have to pay more attention next time. |
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Slammer
Registered: Feb 2004
Posts: 416 |
Yes, demo watching is highly subjective and lots of productions deserve praise here. For instance I really enjoyed 'Son of a Bit', 'UGULB' and 'A Game of Ten' and they are not even in top 5. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
Quote: Oswald: Check the discussion on the event page around the 6th of January.
yes rules changed mid compo... |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
No, Oswald, they didn’t. There were two ways that the competition rules were being interpreted - and I settled that after some discussion by accepting both and by splitting the compo into two. Doubling the prize winnings with that.
Interesting that you choose to draw a problem from that - that says a lot IMO. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
my mistake I was just skimming through the compo page comments, so 2 prizes, that makes it fair and square. |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 249 |
Thanks Slammer =) |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
No worries, Oswald.
I know some thought the prize was un-scenely... my initial reason for it though was that, really, my plans for 2021 changed... i’m moving to Thailand later in the year. The Mega65 that I ordered wouldn’t get the love that it deserves - so I thought doing this would be a great way to pass it on and to help the scene a little at the same time.
I think people created some amazing stuff for this compo. The variety of entries shows to me that this sort of compo can actually work really really well. Many thanks to ALL who entered or helped in any way at all :-) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
@Raistlin, yeah the compo even inspired me, altho I didnt participate but it got me cooking some things. So thanks for that. |
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anonym
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 267 |
Quote: @Raistlin, yeah the compo even inspired me, altho I didnt participate but it got me cooking some things. So thanks for that.
Make a demo out of it and release it at Transmission64 @Oswald. We'd love to see it.
Wow, Raistlin's sprite only competition surely had some amazing entries. I really enjoyed it. |
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Walt
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 47 |
Today I received the MEGA65 devkit from Raistlin, together with 4 G*P beanies :) - is this some kind of recruitment tactic? ;) |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 671 |
Quote: Today I received the MEGA65 devkit from Raistlin, together with 4 G*P beanies :) - is this some kind of recruitment tactic? ;)
Sweet!
And, well, you -did- read the smallprint, didn't you? We need someone to compete with Trap on Mega65 - who better than you? |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 519 |
tsk! tsk! 24hrs already with the dev kit and no Bonzai Mega65 demo yet... :) |
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Stone
Registered: Oct 2006
Posts: 172 |
Fantastic compo and massive kudos to Raistlin for organizing and putting up such amazing prizes! And what Laxity said <3 |
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zscs
Registered: Sep 2010
Posts: 48 |
The end results showed us, this is definitely amongst the best compos ever, amazing products! ;-)
One idea for a possible next candidate, create intros/demos with only hires-looking multicolor gfxs like in this intro? :) New Year's Resolution |
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chancer
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 346 |
Quote: Sweet!
And, well, you -did- read the smallprint, didn't you? We need someone to compete with Trap on Mega65 - who better than you?
it's a trap ;-)
stay in ya group.. technically raistlin should be in a UK group.. anyone got a number for kreator ? I feel to steal him ;-)
still trying to get ash & dave out of retirement :p |
