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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1071 |
Best C64 Demo Ever?
Now that Edge of Disgrace is out, I thought everybody would agree that this is the best c64 demo ever released.
Though, judging from comments here (and on pouet), there seem to be a couple ppl disagreeing. Yet only few actually state their favorites.
So, if you don't think EoD is the best, which one is and why? |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Yeah, name one that's better. Can't be done.
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
Dutch Breeze, Edge of Disgrace, Krestology
Top 3 demos on C64
Compare all 3 demos to each other, and all 3 have their pluses and negatives. I couldnt really rate one above the other, as all 3 have many strong points.
It could be argued that, Dutch Breeze has the edge on audio, Edge of Disgrace the edge on code, and Krestology the edge on graphics.
Based on these (well my ;) facts, the best demo ever on C64 is still out there ;D |
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
Different demos, different reactions. While Edge of Disgrace made me scream with joy during the compo, for example Hello:FRIEND hit me like a punch in the stomach. And I know it's no demo, but Larger than Life had an even more powerful impact, especially combined with Zyron's note. I almost started crying at the party.
That said, given the pure amount of effort put into Edge of Disgrace, I don't think anyone can find another demo that tops it. It's a 15 minute total effectfest made by no more than three persons, for crying out loud. |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
@wile coyote: Only one of these is a demo, the others are just (very good) slideshows ;)
But you were actually the only one I think to mention other demos. Most of the unbelievers just say "this isn't the best" w/o saying which one they then think is best. Smells more like trollin' to me.
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1570 |
I don't think EoD is my number one in the best C64 demo ever.
EoD will have a special place in my heart when I think back to X08.
It was the icing on the cake of such a successful party with an outstanding and thrilling demo competition.
As an organizer these are things you only dream of.
Well, this dream came true.
What would I choose as best C64 demo ever?
I really don't know. I have some favorites that each responds to a milestone in C64 scene history.
Some of those are HAL's Barbaric, Black Mail's So-Phisticated III, Dutch Breeze and Panoramic's Digital Delight.
Since last sunday EoD is added to that list.
Not only for the demo itself but also for the memories. |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
Quote: @wile coyote: Only one of these is a demo, the others are just (very good) slideshows ;)
But you were actually the only one I think to mention other demos. Most of the unbelievers just say "this isn't the best" w/o saying which one they then think is best. Smells more like trollin' to me.
Labeling Dutch Breeze, Krestology, slideshows is an insult.
For your information, I voted Edge of Disgrace 10/10
..hardly the vote of a troll ;P
If you read all the comments, Deekay wrote:
"The only thing i would not award this a 12 (only a 10! ;-) for is maybe the music, which was great, but still is not in the league of Dutch Breeze (seriously: what is? What ever will be? <:-)"
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Richard
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 620 |
Quote: Now that Edge of Disgrace is out, I thought everybody would agree that this is the best c64 demo ever released.
Though, judging from comments here (and on pouet), there seem to be a couple ppl disagreeing. Yet only few actually state their favorites.
So, if you don't think EoD is the best, which one is and why?
I agree with you. Edge of Disgrace is the *best* demo in the world, since Deus Ex Machina. This demo is my top no.1 favourite of all time.
Wonder if anyone will beat this? ;) |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1071 |
@radiant, I remember the first time seeing LTL, my stomach turned into a knot when I saw that first pic ;( rip kjell
anyway, back on topic, Dutch Breeze used to be my alltime favorite. and in terms of audio and concept, it still is. but as a whole EoD is definitely my all time favorite now, I'm a sucker for flow, perfect transitions and well designed coderpr0n.
I don't think EoD is unbeatable though, it just hasn't been done yet. |
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VIC
Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 73 |
For me it's hard to prioritize one great demo over another as they all possess different qualities, but this surely is The Shawshank Redemption of C64 demos.
That said, I myself find a lot of movies better that TSR, and that might be what others feel about this demo...
Hooray for diversity!
KTHXBYE |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3042 |
I loved Wonderland 9 and 10. Great Musics by Danko. Some original C64 effects.. actually I loved a lot of later Censor Design stuff. I loved Comalight 12... perfect timed intro by PRI... Parts/ Oxyron.. I loved Panoramic stuff that Scout has mentioned. Weird ideas forces you to think about them. I loved Dawnfall. I loved Radio Napalm .. awesome hardcore soundtrack. I loved Insomnia. I loved Tower Power 92%. I loved Eiger/ Nipson. I the place in space. Antics demos.. was it Lunacy 6? or 7? Beyond Imagination I loved too.. I loved some of the Padua's torture demos too. I loved Visuality series by Virtual Reality (awesome trackmos)I loved a lot of demos and I more or less still remember them.. the demos made in all countries all around the world.. I remember some hungarian Faces demo I loved.. I remember that I loved few polish demos too.. even some cool NTSC demos and I especially remember some big NTSC demo made in the times of revival of NTSC scene (when driven64 was around) where Waveform was involved (he learned to code 64 in times when he already knew his lethal diagnose...)
...I loved to watch demos... and maybe I still do, I don't know... ;-)
... today it's a bit harder to amuse me but I'm sure I would be probably totally amazed if I was at the party.. I would have great memories.. if there was a video stream from the party place I'm sure I would be at least as stunned as party visitors.. (I experienced such thing when there was Breakpoint stream where C64 version of desert dream was released.. and then that Farbrrausch demolition demo ;-)... well. I think it's all about the mood and timing... you need to slow down for being able to enjoy things nowaday.. with all computers connected, our ability to appreciate things and being amused is being dumbed by the sheer volume of "entertainment" that is being streamed through the screen to our brains.. it's greeat there is still considerable quantity of demos being produces for the c64 scene even when it's native audience can be counted in hundreds .. thousand .. maximum.. and it's active core is maybe 100 people or so. But if we want to step further we need to make demos that can be digested by other scenes and mainstream.. we need to communicate outside the scene and not conserve ourselves in our small community... I think that reliable answer to the question about best c64 demo needs to be made either by non c64 audience (which is not very realisitic) or... we'll decide when we get older.. maybe 50-60.. then we will be more qualified to answer this question... maybe .. ;-)
We should use our great tricks and designing skills.. and musical dominance to make demos that shock non c64 people.. that's the thing which we can then celebrate and boast about.. beating our own demos in our own limited environment is a bit retrogressive... |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
It's not the best demo ever made, it's just the hardest to code ever made.
Still, anything less than 10 is a no go :-) |
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Tao
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 115 |
Mentallic remains my all-time favourite (despite loading times and lack of transition effects).
Still EoD is a total masterpiece, no doubt. |
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TPM
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 109 |
Best demo ever would be a demo coded by coderkings HCL/Dane, flavoured by creative coding of Hollowman, design cooperation between Mirage, Hein, Electric, Jailbird and Sander and superb audio by Maniacs of Noise like they did in Dutch Breeze. All good for a minimal 9-rating but as joint forces an average of 10 :)
So no pure mathematical chess/cube/plot/plasma stuff, but mathematical applied well designed storytelling codepr0n like glenz shaded cars driving through some plasma filled jelly pudding fantasy buildings :P
For now Dutch Breeze, Edge of Disgrace and Deus Ex Machina (just to mention a few, there are more) are my top demos ever made. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Mentallic remains my all-time favourite (despite loading times and lack of transition effects).
Still EoD is a total masterpiece, no doubt.
Funny you should say that, because until yesterday Mentallic was the only demo ever that I voted a '10'. However, after watching it again yesterday I noticed it looked a bit .. 'pale' .. compared to today's stuff.
Not sure what the best demo ever is, not even sure if that's the same as 'my favourite' demo ;) But if I really had to choose right now, I'd go for Emanation Machine, and yes, that's after I watched EoD on the real c64 ;) |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
I still love Graphixmania 2. So sue me.
Kalle Kloak probably made the biggest impact on me back in the day.
I guess what I mean is, everyone's #1 demo will be different depending on tastes and circumstance. EOD is very very very good though.
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Ksubi
Account closed
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 87 |
One of only a few demo's that I can watch over and over and over again is Unsound Minds: Follow the Sign 3 by Byterapers.
So I'd say that its my favourite. Wonderful music by AMJ, a fast pace with varied effects (back in the 90's so a few "big pixel" parts) by Mr Sex and great graphics. It also doesnt drag on, over and done in minutes but youre left asking for more.
Technically though Edge of Disgrace (Cycle 2?) is incredible. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1071 |
Quote: It's not the best demo ever made, it's just the hardest to code ever made.
Still, anything less than 10 is a no go :-)
that's all cool and all, but the point of this thread is to share which demo *you* think is Best Ever ;) not just saying eod isn't it ;)
anyway, I also think Mathematica deserves a mention here, always loved that one a lot! |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1071 |
Quote:I guess what I mean is, everyone's #1 demo will be different depending on tastes and circumstance.
exactly the point of this thread, its interesting to see what other ppl appreciate the most. |
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 675 |
Whats the problem with a 10 vote?
Is it just me or is 10 not stating "the one and only best" but rather "excellent".
You are allowed to vote 10 MORE than once throughout all demos. People discuss this so seriously here these days - you could almost think the CSDb-vote-system (AND its voters) are NOT totally fucked up :o)
I doubt anyone re-evaluates ALL his votes once he meets a 10 and thus has to do relative changes to all other entries.
Bullshit.
I vote 10 if I think something is extremely excellent.
10 does not mean "cant be better - ever".
I rarely vote in general though.
Just my thoughts about the moral conflict of some here to vote 10 at all. |
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cavey
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 68 |
Heh,
I just have a couple of favourite demos:
Radio Napalm/Reflex just blew me away. Awesome soundtrack, lovely effects.
Red Storm/Triad also blew me away. Iirc it has been in the top10 demos on csdb for quite some time eh? :)
EoD just blew me away at the party. Watched it 3 times yesterday, doesn't get boring :) (I only need an 8580 now! growl)
Other favourites, hmmmmmmmm... Deus Ex Machina, Mathematica, actually virtually all Reflex demos from that era :D
Comalight 12
Oh well, my top 3 is now something like "EoD, Radio Napalm, Red Storm" :)
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der_ton
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 11 |
My old favourites are alot of old ones from 1991-1993 (Dutch Breeze, some of Oxy's Coma Lights, Padua, Crest and CD's Wonderland 8-12), then nothing really stunned me anymore for some years. The newer top favourites are (besides EoD): Cycle, Natural Wonders and Digital Magic. |
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Mr. Mouse
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 235 |
Edge of Disgrace is the best demo released this year, and surely since a long time. Still, I need to refrain from calling it the best. There are many 'bests'.
Dutch Breeze, Follow the Sign 3 are some that are high up there.
What it comes down to is that Booze would not have been able to come up with these ideas if other demos and people (including their own efforts) had not preceded them, if it had not been more than 20 years since the day the first demos were created. In that respect, EoD is in a way a collective scene-effort that builds on the knowledge and experience of the community.
Had EoD been released back then on the same day as Dutch Breeze (or Deus Ex as some seem to get high on), it would probably without doubt have won the compo.
But it wasn't, because what we know now we didn't know then.
Calling something the best ever is possible, but in my book unnecessary or even inappropriate. I believe the impact Dutch Breeze had on the community back then, may be greater than EoD has on the community now. As such, which is the best?
[EDIT]I note I forgot to mention some of my personal favourites. Dutch Breeze (design/gfx/music), Follow the Sign 3 (code), Deus Ex Machina (design), Krestology (gfx), Graphixmania II (the humor, and great tunes by Tim). |
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null
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 645 |
some of my favorites
The Larch 3
Mathemetica
Dutch Breeze
Deus Ex Machina
Insomnia
Edge of Disgrace
Soiled Legacy
Pearls for Pigs
Aplifire
Natural Wonders (1 and 2)
Desert Dream
Error 23
The Wild Bunch
Der Gummel
...and a whole lot others... I'll finish the list later..
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http://zomgwtfbbq.info |
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Jayce
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 39 |
Quote: @wile coyote: Only one of these is a demo, the others are just (very good) slideshows ;)
But you were actually the only one I think to mention other demos. Most of the unbelievers just say "this isn't the best" w/o saying which one they then think is best. Smells more like trollin' to me.
Funny, cause if you look on it like that, EoD is just a very well executed plasma show with very nice transitions ;)
EoD is a topnotch demo, but for some reason it's not the best demo ever on my little planet, because for me it misses the icing on the cake. Transitions are perfect, hell even beter then most effect screens. But when i think of jawdropping amazingness, i think more of the wonderland series. Back in the days when all these new vic'alicious tricks where being discovered. EoD is mere perfecting of the already invented things, but not a perfect 10.
As the genre of story telling demo's, well as much as i hate to toot my own horn, but i still think that with combination of Sander's screens and TDJ's writng trans*form is an great example of combining visuals,code and stories into a good demo. The same goes for almost everything that comes out Hollowman's mind. Or in the yesteryears productions like "Seal of Focalor" by MSI.
But there is no single best ever, there are multiple best evers, all in their specific time and settings. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
@Knoekie: please don't (finish the list). Did you even understand the question Burglar asked?
@Jayce: well said ("there is no single best ever, there are multiple best evers, all in their specific time and settings") |
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null
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 645 |
Quote: @Knoekie: please don't (finish the list). Did you even understand the question Burglar asked?
@Jayce: well said ("there is no single best ever, there are multiple best evers, all in their specific time and settings")
yes, I did understand the question. I had typed a few (imho) top demos, and then continued later, forgetting that it wasn't a favorites list...
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daison
Registered: May 2005
Posts: 90 |
I gave it some thought and I still think Deus Ex Machina is the best demo somehow. It's hard to explain why though.
I guess I personally just like black backgrounds better for most fx and that's why I think it's presentation better. Also, the fx are more varied in that one. and I think it's better introduced with the nice borderless smirnoff chick and shfli logo and characters, and it also has a decent ending with an actual upscroller and such ;)
Then again, EoD has more of fx, does a lot of new things and is very wel polished with all the sweet transitions, music details and so on.
So, DeM it is for me, but EoD comes in at a close second.
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A Life in Hell
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 204 |
contraversial opinions comics: EOD is an amazing demo, and I loved watching it a few times, but somehow on more repeated I find royal arte to still tbe most enjoyable c64 demo ever. |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
We all know Edge of Disgrace reached #1 at X-2008, where the "crème de la crème" of the scene was present.
It's also at the top of the CSDb charts and everybody talks about it.
Why would you want to ask for more confirmation?
This said, I'm not entirely sure I find this Teh Bestest D3mo Ev0r. It's just not fair to compare today's releases with those from the past.
I still find It's Movin' a very good demo, placed in its time.
It would be strange if the scene hadn't evolved and wouldn't be able to come up with something better today.
Let's just stop the hype and move on... if possible ;-) |
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Optimus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 122 |
Two demos I enjoy most than everything and EOD are Soiled Legacy and Insomnia. I like more Soiled Legacy because there is a great variety of newschool effects very well done, one screen after the other showing a quite different effect that is very well done, unlike the repetition of zoomers and plasmas in EOD (although there were enough other good things to see). Well, with Insomnia you could say that they reuse the same effects at places and doesn't have the variety but there is a flow and music that I really love in this one! I enjoy it's music more than EOD even though I like the EOD music too (at some places it's uplifting).
Objectively speeking EOD cannot be compared with anything. But personally. But subjectively everyone has his own favorites. Anyone would agree that the two demos I mention suck in comparison to EOD. But I enjoy it more watching them. Although I start to appreciate EOD more each time I watch it and I think it had made it in my favorites list too. |
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Puterman
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 188 |
I like being surprised, to see new kinds of effects, rather than better versions of old ones. If it's well implemented, that's great, but to see something that feels fresh is the most important to me. I also like my demos a bit dirty and unpolished.
It's a bit hard to judge how good Edge of Disgrace is right now. I'll have to let it mature in wine cellar/torture dungeon for some time.
But some of my favorites are:
- Soul, which has some really fresh and interesting parts that felt completely new when the demo was released
- Industrial Breakdown, which was a great idea, and very well implemented
- Deus Ex Machina, mostly because it feels like they managed to change the shape of the screen in quite a few parts, which made it feel really new and creative
- Plush2k, because it felt wacky and massive, with ugly graphics and wonderfully creative effects
- Thrust Concert, for the childhood memories and the great concept
- Pretending to see the Light, because of the mood
- Digital World, because of the feeling that anything can happen, and because of the crazy music
- Bound to be Best II, mostly because of the great feeling of joy in the last part
- The Last Reactor, because it's so creative and well designed, with superb music, graphics and attitude
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Archmage
Registered: Aug 2006
Posts: 185 |
The demo I pop in my floppy the most often is The Wild Bunch. This was the demo that made me want to be part of the C64 scene. And a demo like EoD makes me want to stay on as a part of the scene to see what's next. So I guess different demos work in different ways depending on what you relate to them personally. I have tried to see what many here see in a demo like Deus Ex Machina but I fail miserably. It is all contextual, which is why I still think that Mental Hangover on the Amiga kicks the shit out of absolutely everything that has been released since. But I won't force anybody to agree with me. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3042 |
Archmage, check 9 & 10 of Wonderland by Censor Design.
( Wonderland IX and Wonderland X ) if you haven't yet. They are press-space demos but I think as a graphician you might find the stuff in them interesting. (and maybe not ;-). Not to speak about really nice effects. |
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cavey
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 68 |
Man, I forgot to mention the stuff from Agony:
Love!
Now there's a very well designed demo imho, with nice effects and good music. But that's all IMHO :D Hehe.
I used to watch that demo over and over.
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Oxbow
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 50 |
I be taking Crest Avantgarde with me to a deserted island.. |
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
Avantgarde is bloody brilliant! My favourite Crest demo for sure. |
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Mr. Mouse
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 235 |
I've seen this pass by in the discussion and remembered with great nostalgia the day I first laid eye on it. Fabulous.
So I've recorded it using one of my C64s
http://www.demoscene.tv/page.php?id=172&lang=uk&vsmaction=view_..
Thrust Concert. |
